'86 505 STi 5spd vs '84 SR 3sp auto wagon compatibility
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default '86 505 STi 5spd vs '84 SR 3sp auto wagon compatibility

    Does anyone know if the gearbox shaft etc are interchangeable from the 5spd '86 Sti sedan to the '84 wagon? What about to a '86 wagon?

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! 123abc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce&Megan
    Does anyone know if the gearbox shaft etc are interchangeable from the 5spd '86 Sti sedan to the '84 wagon? What about to a '86 wagon?
    none of the sedan tourqe shafts fit into wagons.

    and there are mixed emotions about the gearbox interchangeability

  3. #3
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Exactly which shaft are you talking about?

  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    Default lessening the screamin from the 505 demon wagon

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond G
    Exactly which shaft are you talking about?
    Basically trying to find if it is worth purchasing the 5spd 86 Sti sedan from Ebay.

    Another option I am looking at was to change the rear diff/axle. My SR wagon diff is currently a 4.22, and according to my manual, the 505 of my era were fitted with 3 variations - by memory a 3.54, a 3.89 and the 4.22. So I am also trying to find out whether i can interchange the diff, or the whole axle if necessary for a 3.89 diff (assuming I can find one). I am not sure the 3.54 diff would be wise as it may be underpowered at this ratio although this would be like a total overdrive ratio.

    As i say, just in search of a little quieter tripon the high way (and more PULP still in the tank.....)

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! 123abc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce&Megan
    Basically trying to find if it is worth purchasing the 5spd 86 Sti sedan from Ebay.

    Another option I am looking at was to change the rear diff/axle. My SR wagon diff is currently a 4.22, and according to my manual, the 505 of my era were fitted with 3 variations - by memory a 3.54, a 3.89 and the 4.22. So I am also trying to find out whether i can interchange the diff, or the whole axle if necessary for a 3.89 diff (assuming I can find one). I am not sure the 3.54 diff would be wise as it may be underpowered at this ratio although this would be like a total overdrive ratio.

    As i say, just in search of a little quieter tripon the high way (and more PULP still in the tank.....)

    Hmmmm, well, the sedans had the independant suspension in the rear, while the wagons were a live axle (solid axle), so the whole rear end cant be swapped, however, one of the Guru's might know if the diffcentres can be changed, i have no idea, i am thinking that cant because of the differant housings, but im not sure, they may interchangeable, i dont know.

    a gearbox change would be worth it if it does fit, and its quite easy to do in the wagons.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Hey Bruce,
    There must be heaps of 505 ZF4HP22 gearboxes lying around at wreckers or in peoples garages, as I am sure there have been many auto-manual changes done. Are you specifically looking at a manual?
    Owen, what was the 505 at Eagle, manual or auto?

    I only ask because the 4sp is a great box for highway cruising, due to lock up torque converter which kicks in at 85km/h.

    When a auto>>manual swap is done, Do people change the diff also? Usually the auto would use a taller ratio due to converter slipage in auto's. I am just summising I don't know either way. Your wagon is an SLi isn't it? What rev range is peak torque made? Would it match up well with a box change only?
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  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Okay, let's get down to it...

    Bruce... what engine do you have? What gearbox do you have (3-speed or 4-speed ZF I assume)?

    Yes, you probably had a 4.222 rear axle ratio, and yes, it can be changed. And 3.89 gears are very easy to find, they are the most common of all.

    Chris is probably right on the money when it comes to making that decision, but if you have a 3-speed auto you'll need more than just the gearbox to make the conversion in a wagon. You will also need the rear gearbox mount and the shorter torque tube and tail shaft.

    I know where there's a brand new rear mount, by the way.

    As for the 5-speed, this will go straight in where a 3-speed auto came out of provided you have the same engine type. If you don't have the same type of engine you will have to change the bellhousing and input shaft, these coming from a 504 4-speed box. A flywheel and clutch from the XN engine will also be required, and you can get the master cylinder and pedal from the 505... the slave cylinder will have to come from a 504.

    Most of this is pretty easy stuff, but involves some sifting and some work. I think you'll be rewarded with better fuel consumption (comparing all the options) by going with the 5-speed, and your engine will be working a lot less.

    But if you prefer an auto and are happy with its shortcomings you have to choose between a 4-speed and the attendant parts-sourcing issues and changing the rear axle ratio.

    Give me a ring if you want to know more detail... 0419 063 662.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Okay, let's get down to it...

    Bruce... what engine do you have? What gearbox do you have (3-speed or 4-speed ZF I assume)?

    Yes, you probably had a 4.222 rear axle ratio, and yes, it can be changed. And 3.89 gears are very easy to find, they are the most common of all.

    Chris is probably right on the money when it comes to making that decision, but if you have a 3-speed auto you'll need more than just the gearbox to make the conversion in a wagon. You will also need the rear gearbox mount and the shorter torque tube and tail shaft.

    I know where there's a brand new rear mount, by the way.

    As for the 5-speed, this will go straight in where a 3-speed auto came out of provided you have the same engine type. If you don't have the same type of engine you will have to change the bellhousing and input shaft, these coming from a 504 4-speed box. A flywheel and clutch from the XN engine will also be required, and you can get the master cylinder and pedal from the 505... the slave cylinder will have to come from a 504.

    Most of this is pretty easy stuff, but involves some sifting and some work. I think you'll be rewarded with better fuel consumption (comparing all the options) by going with the 5-speed, and your engine will be working a lot less.

    But if you prefer an auto and are happy with its shortcomings you have to choose between a 4-speed and the attendant parts-sourcing issues and changing the rear axle ratio.

    Give me a ring if you want to know more detail... 0419 063 662.
    Guy, Thanks for the info.

    It is a '84 SR wagon, 4.22 diff, XN engine with ZF3HP22 auto.

    As you say there are pros and cons with the manual vs auto but as the car is driven by my wife predominantly to pick up the kids and do the usual 'taxi' runs, it is nice with the auto. I have been trying to find a 4spd auto, but was unable to find one and was warned that they didn't go in easily (some panel beating and possibly cut&welding of the flooring around the bell housing?).

    Based on the data you guys have presented, the change in diff to 3.89 would be the easiest and cheapest, with around a 10% reduction in rpm. Given that the sweet spot in the engine also appears to be in the 3000 - 3500rpm range, this would give us 100kph running @ approx 3400rpm. Not a bad compromise if it can be done easily and cheaply.

    The 3 to 4spd auto conversion would be the next choice followed by the 5spd conversion.

    In terms of the diff changeout, what is required and has anyone got the parts available?

    bruce

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Bruce,
    I am not sure of what differences there are between the 3 and 4sp ZF boxes, even though I had one of both here for a while. I am happy for you to pop round and we can run the 2 cars up on ramps and compare if you would like.
    Chris
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    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    The diff conversion is most readily done by Geoff Battersby at Bribie Island...

    It involves machining up some very fine bushes to carry the sun gears in the hemisphere, they normally being supported by the bearings that carry the inner quarter shafts.

    I can imagine the process of fitting the 4-speed auto would be an ugly and lengthy one unless you got a complete setup from a written off wagon.

    As I said before, don't be afraid to ring if you think you'd like to know more. I will be pulling a 3.89 from a '80 model sedan tomorrow.

    Whoops... just noticed I gave the wrong number... 0409 063 662

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