My Progress so far......
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  1. #1
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    Default My Progress so far......

    Hi all!

    for those interested, i thought id create a thread about my 1.9 Mi16 rebuild/turbo project.

    It's only just starting to gain momentum, im hoping for it all to be done by the end of the year.

    I got back my head yesterday, it recieved new seals, valves, guides, etc, etc. with the new valves getting a very aggressive 3 step cut to try to aid performance, the ports have also been completely relieved of any machining marks and are now sooooooo smooth!

    i've decided to keep the standard cams on advice from a few sources, needless to say my wallett agrees!

    I was going to get forged low comp. (8.1:1) pistons from Australian Precision, but have found out about a place on the mainland (im in tassie) called VPW, apparently a set of forged pistons will set you back around $700 there, which is very much cheaper, and they use 'aries' piston blanks, which come from the same factory as JE and similar high performace pistons.

    The intercooler (500x300x76) has had all the brackets made up and sits nicely behind the front bumper with a few modifications (namely the removal of the factory thermo fans and shroud) but the plumbing will prove to be more difficult but i havent tackled that yet!

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    I'm going for a t3/t4 hybrid turbo, not sure which manufacturer yet, but turbonetics USA is looking very good, just that im not sure about after sales service should something go wrong.

    Anyways, ill post some pictures and have a bit more of a ramble soon, so stay tuned!
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by bj_dove
    I'm going for a t3/t4 hybrid turbo, not sure which manufacturer yet, but turbonetics USA is looking very good, just that im not sure about after sales service should something go wrong.
    Isn't that a Garrett hybrid?

    Good to see some progress - so many of us talk about things without ever getting around to it!

    Keep on reporting.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  3. #3
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    Isn't that a Garrett hybrid?

    Stuey
    Yes they are garrett models, but there are quite a few manufacturers that make the same specification turbos, so they call them the same thing!

    Here's a couple of photos of my shiny head! (engine head that is)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My Progress so far......-cimg0040.jpg   My Progress so far......-cimg0043.jpg  
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! WAUTY205's Avatar
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    Nice one mate!!
    Love to see it when complete!
    -Will
    1990 205Gti
    1976 504 rally car (currently out of action)

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bj_dove
    Yes they are garrett models, but there are quite a few manufacturers that make the same specification turbos, so they call them the same thing!

    Here's a couple of photos of my shiny head! (engine head that is)

    ooh, I forgot how good they look cleaned up. Stop showing me these or I'll build one too.
    78 Fiat X1/9, Peugeot 406 ST, Peugeot 407 V6 SW

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  6. #6
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Shearer
    ooh, I forgot how good they look cleaned up. Stop showing me these or I'll build one too.
    hehe yeah they look good! u should see the lovely ports, i cant get over how well they came up! i compared the head to a few other 'high performance' ones while i was there, off turbo jap imports, the pug head is light years ahead as far as flow paths and area is conerned! i spose adding a bit of boost and anything can flow well
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    BJ... do you think that a t3/t4 is a bit to slow on spool up? I worked with a dual scroll T4/t3 combo and whilst it made HUGE power on a 2lt nissan, it didn't do anything till 4900rpm, then whent nuts at 5000rpm.
    I would sacrifice some top end and fit a GT28 instead... what do you think. - Chris
    ... ptui!

  8. #8
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    The T3/T4 idea came about after talking with my local performance shop (Autocraft), they rang up GCG turbochargers and told them my plan and they recomended the t3/t4, i think a smaller trim is available on the compressor wheel, to help spool up. they did say it would be 'mid to top end' power, but werent worried about excessive lag. i guess if it is that bad i will have to change the turbo, but im hoping it will work well.

    the alternative to the t3/t4 is a gt28rs, though expensive they are a good trade off between low end grunt and top end power, hence a popular choice for sr20 powered drifters.
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bj_dove
    The T3/T4 idea came about after talking with my local performance shop (Autocraft), they rang up GCG turbochargers and told them my plan and they recomended the t3/t4, i think a smaller trim is available on the compressor wheel, to help spool up. they did say it would be 'mid to top end' power, but werent worried about excessive lag. i guess if it is that bad i will have to change the turbo, but im hoping it will work well.

    the alternative to the t3/t4 is a gt28rs, though expensive they are a good trade off between low end grunt and top end power, hence a popular choice for sr20 powered drifters.
    Yep,.. the car i mentioned was Sr20 powered. Eventually he ( only just did in the last few weeks.. these young ones ) went for a custom trimmed Gt28 ball-bearing turbo. Works from about 3000rpm all the way to red line.
    ... ptui!

  10. #10
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    just got hold of the throttle body im using for the conversion, its a 65mm item from an RB25 nissan motor, it has significantly larger area then the standard dual 40mm setup on the mi16, so i think it will be beneficial without being overkill

    here's a photo to show the difference!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My Progress so far......-cimg0044.jpg  
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bj_dove
    just got hold of the throttle body im using for the conversion, its a 65mm item from an RB25 nissan motor, it has significantly larger area then the standard dual 40mm setup on the mi16, so i think it will be beneficial without being overkill

    here's a photo to show the difference!
    Why not just use an Audi/VW throttle body? Two stage, 50% bigger and fits on the same bolt pattern.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Good work mate will be great to see this build come along

    Check out this website. It has lots and lots of goodies for predominately Jap cars however there are always many good Injectors, Intercoolers and Turbos available. If you are looking for bargains check it out.

    Injectors
    http://firesport.ipspace.com/?sectio...=show&id=19357

    Microtech
    http://firesport.ipspace.com/?sectio...=show&id=19291

    NIce HKS Turbo
    http://firesport.ipspace.com/?sectio...=show&id=19262

    EVOLUTION TUrbo
    http://firesport.ipspace.com/?sectio...=show&id=19198

    These are really great turbos...ive driven a few quick Evos and from a 2litre the amount of torque they produce all the way to redline is amazing. Plus they are not too laggy either.


    Best of luck with your turbo build it should be awesome when complete.
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    What am I talking about with the VW/Audi idea? You're hardly going to use the standard manifold! Must have been a hard day at work.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  14. #14
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    You're hardly going to use the standard manifold! Must have been a hard day at work.
    well i was thinking about retaining the standard manifold infact, is there any particular reason why it wouldnt be a good idea? they seem to have a nice design and large plenum.

    thanks for the links WRC, no doubt that site will come in very handy when im shopping for all the odds and ends!

    does anybody have any experience with microtech as an aftermarket computer for a turbo application?? we've got one on a 4AGZE toyota, but nothing turbo.

    cheers
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bj_dove
    just got hold of the throttle body im using for the conversion, its a 65mm item from an RB25 nissan motor, it has significantly larger area then the standard dual 40mm setup on the mi16, so i think it will be beneficial without being overkill

    here's a photo to show the difference!
    bj_dove???
    I am not doubting your assumption, just that when you do the maths, twin 40mm has larger apeture than a single 65mm. Area of circle is pi multiplied by the diameter. 251.2 as opposed to 204.1 square mm. I may-be wrong though.
    One more point, I was always told that a slightly pourous surface in a port is better than smooth. Why?? Have a look at what water does on a polished car, it beads, and the theory is that the fuel droplets will form easier on highly polished surfaces than slightly pourous ones.
    What trim are you going for on the T3/T4?? Those swedish turbo cars use t3 as standard and I feel it spools up very low and pushes through to 6,500.
    An American aftermarket parts mob for the same make(***b) recommend a T3/T4 hybrid and sell them as an exchange good for upto 350hp with fuel system mods, so it is a good choice with the right trim. It is possible to go too big though, I saw an episode of Top Gear with a Lancer EVO VIII in full trim and it was so slow until the turbo spooled up fully it was amazing.

    The standard manifold would be fine for turbo applications, as force feeding will make up for any short-comings. What are you going for ultimate boost?
    This will be one quick car when completed. Good luck.
    Last edited by HONG KONG PUGGY; 3rd May 2005 at 10:15 PM.
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  16. #16
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    Area of circle is pi multiplied by the diameter. 251.2 as opposed to 204.1 square mm. I may-be wrong though.
    area of a circle is Pi x radius squared

    twin 40mm = (Pi x 20squared) x2 = 2513mmSquared

    single 65mm = Pi x 32.5squared = 3848mmSquared

    Hence my decision about the 65mm RB25 throttle

    thanks for the info about porus surfaces, it does make sense when u think about it like that!

    i will be going for a small trimmed t3/t4, as i couldnt imagine anything worse than hanging on for grim life round a corner, then the thing coming on boost all of a sudden!

    on BP ultimate, im hoping to be able to run a high boost setting of around the 20psi mark, obviously not that much for round town
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Yep,
    My mistake, should have asked the kids, ddin't think it was right but ran with it anyway. Just lucky I didn't apply my maths to any boost questions, could blow it up
    My humble appoligies, was only trying to help.
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  18. #18
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    hehe no probs, i appreciate the thought!
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bj_dove
    hehe no probs, i appreciate the thought!
    I though Mi16 TB's were 38mm each?

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  20. #20
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    I though Mi16 TB's were 38mm each?
    they quite possibly are, im just approximating for arguements sake, in that case the 65mm is even bigger comparitively!

    what do you think of using the standard manifold peter?
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  21. #21
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    The idea with slightly rough walled ports is that tiny eddy currents form on the surface which makes the majority of the flow run smoothly across the top of the rotating eddies. With polished surfaces, fluids like air drag against the surface and are restricted as a single body. That's the theory, anyway!

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bj_dove
    what do you think of using the standard manifold peter?
    I think that's good. I obviously forgot that you are putting a turbo between the TB and the manifold, in which case, the single 65mm body will be far easier to fabricate a mount/manifold for.

    I know a guy in Kiama who has a turbo Mi16 in his offroad buggy. It's an otherwise std. engine with 8:1 forged pistons, Motec and 11psi. It puts out 190hp at the wheels, at a rev. limiter enforced 6500rpm.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  23. #23
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    I know a guy in Kiama who has a turbo Mi16 in his offroad buggy. It's an otherwise std. engine with 8:1 forged pistons, Motec and 11psi. It puts out 190hp at the wheels, at a rev. limiter enforced 6500rpm.
    do you know what turbo he is using?? and is he running standard in injectors and that sort of thing?
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

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