Pertronix Electronic Ignition Conversion.
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Default Pertronix Electronic Ignition Conversion.

    I've been looking at electronic ignition conversion, and every time I look the Pertronix comes up best.
    As I would like to keep the engine bay of my 10S replica as close to original looking as possible, and these conversions fit inside the distributor, I think this is the best wya to go.
    Has anyone purchased one recently?
    I did a search and Renault 8&10 fitted one in 2003.
    I have had a quote form a guy in the states, around $140(may-be less) landed here each. I have only had a price from one supplier here and it was close to $300
    Is anyone else considering Pertronix in the near future? I don't need a minimum number of orders, but if anyone is interested let me know. I can also get a kit for the Bosch dizzy used in some R12/16 applications also. I will hopefully have a full price list soon for coils and Cap Discharge ignition boxes as well.
    Chris.

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! ruckus's Avatar
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    I might be interested for my bug with a bosch 009 dizzy etc.
    Series 1 205 Gti
    '54 VW Beetle (oval-window)
    '71 VW Beetle (big-window)

  3. #3
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    Default Price update...

    I have an emailed price form a Melbourne supplier.($242) plus post to me. I could get 2 ignitors sent form the USA for their price.
    When are these people going to stop ripping off classic car enthusiasts because once upon a time parts were difficult to obtain downunder. These days, with web access, parts supplies are more readily available, and hopefully someway these sharks get the message when some of their business drops off.
    BTW, I emailed back and questioned the high cost, I'll await a good excuse.
    Chris


    P.S.....one other good point about the Pertronix is they claim it can be used as an electronic trigger(hall effect sensor type) for electronic ignition systems
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    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
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    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    I gotta wonder about the real advantage - the good old Sierra motor isnt the most high tech unit and isnt hard on points. My R10S motor used to scream (it got a real hammering from me, back in my silly days ) its way along quite happily on stock ignition.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    I have an emailed price form a Melbourne supplier.($242) plus post to me. I could get 2 ignitors sent form the USA for their price.
    When are these people going to stop ripping off classic car enthusiasts because once upon a time parts were difficult to obtain downunder. These days, with web access, parts supplies are more readily available, and hopefully someway these sharks get the message when some of their business drops off.
    BTW, I emailed back and questioned the high cost, I'll await a good excuse.
    Chris


    P.S.....one other good point about the Pertronix is they claim it can be used as an electronic trigger(hall effect sensor type) for electronic ignition systems
    couldn't agree more - I picked up a NOS Piranha electronic conversion for a Duceliar dizzy from the UK for a total of AUS$50 including postage ... yet to fit it, looks a little complicated compared to the ol' bosch electronic conversion kit ... but I'll alwayd opt for electronic ignition over the points!
    cheers frank

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Are Pirhana Ignitions still available, as in Who has this 'old stock'?

    Chris
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    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
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    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

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    Default 'old stock'

    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    Are Pirhana Ignitions still available, as in Who has this 'old stock'?

    Chris
    hi Chris

    I bought the kit off the ubiquitous Ebay - a seller in the UK ... have also picked up and fitted a generic kit off the same place (US this time) for a '79 Hilux and a Nissan 1.4 (its okay, its in a Morry). I have also got a Bosch kit from an auto leccy in Melbourne (can't remember who, it was a couple of years ago).

    Not only does the car stay in tune and timing stays almost perfect, but its saves the cost, time and effort of replacing those b. things!!

    cheers frank

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Yes,
    thats one big advantage of electronic ignition, no changing components.
    I remember a Jeep CJ6 my neighbour had when Iwas a kid,he had a Ford 250 6 in it with a dick smith CDI installed. He had to change the points because the rubbing block on the points wore out. I have fitted a Dick Smith Transistor Assisted kit to a R17 and avirage and found the ease of cold starts amazing.
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    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

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    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    I have an emailed price form a Melbourne supplier.($242) plus post to me. I could get 2 ignitors sent form the USA for their price.
    When are these people going to stop ripping off classic car enthusiasts because once upon a time parts were difficult to obtain downunder. These days, with web access, parts supplies are more readily available, and hopefully someway these sharks get the message when some of their business drops off.
    BTW, I emailed back and questioned the high cost, I'll await a good excuse.
    Chris


    P.S.....one other good point about the Pertronix is they claim it can be used as an electronic trigger(hall effect sensor type) for electronic ignition systems
    Parts of Europe in Perth had these out for around $150 about 6 months ago,
    Very good in most motors especially VWs both Type 1 and 4.
    They are made in Malaysia like many electronics including aircraft black boxes
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    Parts of Europe in Perth had these out for around $150 about 6 months ago,
    Very good in most motors especially VWs both Type 1 and 4.
    They are made in Malaysia like many electronics including aircraft black boxes
    Don't care where they are made, as long as they work
    The main plus I could see with the Pertronix was it fitted inside the dizzy body, with no visible control box.
    I did get the price direst form the USA of under $120AU so that's a good start. I am going to call my brotehr-in-law who runs a Coventry Auto franchise in Brisbane because they are apparently a supplier as well.
    Watch this space.
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    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! ruckus's Avatar
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    Yeah I'm still def interested for my bug
    Series 1 205 Gti
    '54 VW Beetle (oval-window)
    '71 VW Beetle (big-window)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruckus
    Yeah I'm still def interested for my bug
    I'd guess the prices for the parts would be fairly similar across the board. I'll talk to my B-in-law in the next few days and see what he can do.
    I'll just need the distributor type you have. Only 2 listed for VW, 1960-'76 & 1968-'80 both bosch.
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    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  13. #13
    Member 750sport's Avatar
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    I am keen to go electronic! Especially as it will all fit inside the distributor so stays stock looking.

    I am after a kit to suit the Ducillier 4136 A as fitted to R8G 812 engine.

    The advance curve spec on these is R.230 which is 30 degrees of [email protected] rpm. [email protected] rpm up quickly up to 14 degrees by 1200 rpm, then the rest as the revs rise.

    Anyone know what the static advance is? as this is set by the pointer and the workshop manual is vague on total advance.

    This advance curve is odd as usually with dual Webers you have as much advance as possible at tickover (while still easy enough to start) to create a stable idle. See what maximum total advance for maximum power is required, and then recurve distributor to achieve this.

    Anyone with experience on the 1255 or 1296 versions of this engine?

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! ruckus's Avatar
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    Its a Bosch 009
    Series 1 205 Gti
    '54 VW Beetle (oval-window)
    '71 VW Beetle (big-window)

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 750sport
    I am after a kit to suit the Ducillier 4136 A as fitted to R8G 812 engine.


    Anyone with experience on the 1255 or 1296 versions of this engine?

    Tony,
    The Ducillier listed numbers are 4155D, which isn't veen listed as an original fitment for Renault. I have no idea what the difference is between this and all the ones I have dismantled over the years. Every Ducillier i have seen be it R12 or R15/17 has been identical internally with the exception of the R17Gordini ones with twin points for the Fuel Injection. I doubt the listing of only 2 advance curves would be a problem, as the advance isn't in a static set of points, but in the dizzy movement.
    Ruckus is lucky, they actually list a bosch 009 in the aftermarket listing.
    More research is needed, just to put my mind at ease for fitment. I'll read a little more if I can find any and let you know. But all the pics I have seen for Ducillier dist's in all the workshop manuals I have read are the same and none say 'item may vary with different applications' so I think we are OK.
    Got a lead on a different type of conversion today too. Crane make something similar, nut as I told the guy, it isn't what we are after as part of it is outside the distributor. ($195) this one is an optical trigger arrangement.
    More later.
    Chris.
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    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  16. #16
    Member 750sport's Avatar
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    Chris,

    The fitting of these conversions is pretty similiar in that a ring attaches to the shaft (under rotor buttor OR replaces it) and sensor attaches to points mounting plate. Some types replace the original points plate with a custom mounting plate.

    The Ducilliers all look pretty standard, so if the kit fits to the existing points plate, and the points between both distributor types are the same, then the problem is solved. Same for rotor.

    The alternative is to get a Ducillier 4155D (whats is that fitted to originally?) and mix and match parts to get a hybrid.

    The advance curve issue is, that while I have the distributor apart to rebuild and upgrade, I would like to recurve it if it is required.

    Tony
    "fast , cheap and reliable...you can only pick two"

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Haven't as yet been able to find a 4155D, but I don't think it'll matter.
    I did a bit more looking today, and found out the Ignitor II senses curent drain form the coil and adjusts the dwell accordingly, and also gives a spark averaging 4 times a normal system form 3,000 - 5,000 RPM.
    I'm going to email Pertronix and see if they'll do a custom kit with the Ignitor II and the original fittings as they don't list it for as vast a range as the original type.
    The original Ignitor is available in 6volt also. Might be of interest to owners of 4CV's, Dauphines, 2CV's(possibly?)

    Chris
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    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  18. #18
    Tadpole higgrobot's Avatar
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    I just purchased a High Energy Ignition Kit from Dick Smith Electronics and just started building it. I will still be using points but I'm hoping the reduced current travelling through the points will make them last longer and work better. I was reading in a silicon chip magazine article that a guy had used this kit with the same set of points for almost twelve years!!! Basicly, the ignition box will do all the high current switching and the points will be used as a signal source or trigger, much better than points but not as high tech as a real breakerless design. I have considered making my own electronic trigger using a hall sensor and recycled coller from some other 4cyl, i can't see myself shelling out ~$200 for something that could be found in a wrecking yard, but for now i will try the kit out and see how it goes.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by higgrobot
    I just purchased a High Energy Ignition Kit from Dick Smith Electronics and just started building it. I will still be using points but I'm hoping the reduced current travelling through the points will make them last longer and work better. I was reading in a silicon chip magazine article that a guy had used this kit with the same set of points for almost twelve years!!! Basicly, the ignition box will do all the high current switching and the points will be used as a signal source or trigger, much better than points but not as high tech as a real breakerless design. I have considered making my own electronic trigger using a hall sensor and recycled coller from some other 4cyl, i can't see myself shelling out ~$200 for something that could be found in a wrecking yard, but for now i will try the kit out and see how it goes.
    I have an old Dick Smith Transistor assisted ignition kit I built years ago, and it was fired with just points, and the points never showed any signs of wear, and the ignition worked perfectly. I have friends who used CDI kits in the 70's and 80's who obviously were using them in points systems too, and without hassles. In fact one such application was on a Ford 250ci engine in a Jeep and the only reasin the points were changed was that the rubbing block was found to be wearing down.
    What car are you using the ignition on higgrobot? The Pertronix is only about $120. It is able to be used as a trigger for electronic ignition, but probably overkill. Some Renault engines we have here are have breakerless ignition in overseas applications. Pug 505 distributors from SR spec cars have breakerless ing too. I am sure the works from a Pug 505SR could be grafted into the normal ignition ducilliers too.
    Chris
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    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  20. #20
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    I'm thinking of updating my ignition to something a bit better. How much difference will going electronic make? I do not want to spend too much or go overboard on something that isn't going to porvide much benefit. I like the sound of the Dick Smith unit. Something nice and simple. How much was the kit, and will it really make that much of a difference?

    Thanks

    Matt
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  21. #21
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Matt,
    You could go 2 ways here.
    1/ One is the Pertronix avenue, as the Pug and Ren ducilliers use the same model Ignitor. ($120 AU landed to you)

    2/ You could go some aftermarket Ignition box/kit. The Silicon Chip one available at Dick Smith or Jaycar is a good option. Only $52.95 from Jaycar, and quite compatible with a points system Or you could source a 505SR electronic ignition distributor and use that in it.

    I have just noticed Jaycar have re-listed the Hall effect sensor ($19.95 outlined in the kit instructions originally. This was unavailable for years, and now after I have done all my research into other options they bring it back.
    This makes the high energy ignition very attractive again, just have to hide the box out of sight in the rear of the R10. (to keep original look as much as possible.

    3/ A 505SR electronic ignition would be another option. I know of one in a wreckers here in Brisbane, but I am sure Ray B knows of one somewhere

    Just a few ideas,
    Chris
    2016 Renault Sport Clio Cup EDC 200



    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    ...
    What car are you using the ignition on higgrobot? The Pertronix is only about $120. It is able to be used as a trigger for electronic ignition, but probably overkill... Chris
    It's my "Throw it in the back" car, a 72 VW Squareback, that's the one that looks like a Mini panel van. I looked around a bit for a good price on a Pertronix and the best i came up with was about $229, if i had known i could get one for $120 i would have grabbed it. Bit late now though, i'm 90% done building this Dick Smith Kit so i'm kinda stuck with it.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by higgrobot
    It's my "Throw it in the back" car, a 72 VW Squareback, that's the one that looks like a Mini panel van. I looked around a bit for a good price on a Pertronix and the best i came up with was about $229, if i had known i could get one for $120 i would have grabbed it. Bit late now though, i'm 90% done building this Dick Smith Kit so i'm kinda stuck with it.
    I can remember when I fitted the TAI to my R17 I got a real buzz when it worked properly. You get a real good feeling form restoration on a car, but even more so when whaat you fit you actually built yourself. Good luck, and let us know what the new kit is like. Is it the High Energy Ignition? There is one Silicon Chip magazine do that is able to be re-programmed with another build-up kit for custom ignition settings.
    Chris.
    2016 Renault Sport Clio Cup EDC 200



    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

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    Tadpole higgrobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    I can remember when I fitted the TAI to my R17 I got a real buzz when it worked properly. You get a real good feeling form restoration on a car, but even more so when whaat you fit you actually built yourself. Good luck, and let us know what the new kit is like. Is it the High Energy Ignition? There is one Silicon Chip magazine do that is able to be re-programmed with another build-up kit for custom ignition settings.
    Chris.
    It's the High Energy Ignition Kit, I think you can add on the programable kit to this one. My little VW has served me well for the last few years, the thing just keeps running, just needs the points done every 3 months or it turns into a slug.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    2/ You could go some aftermarket Ignition box/kit. The Silicon Chip one available at Dick Smith or Jaycar is a good option. Only $52.95 from Jaycar, and quite compatible with a points system
    I think this will be the way to go. It's cheap, and also as I get to build it myself it's comething else to keep me off the streets . There's a certain degree of satisfaction in building something yourself.

    Higgrobot mentioned that you can add a programmable kit to this one. What additional degree of flexibilty does this afford? Does it mean you can adjust the timing on the run, or get an indication of the timing? As it is still points triggered I cannot see how, but I'm not that familiar with the system. Just thinking if I put water injection on the car, it would be handy to be able to adjust the timing easily to set it up, and also when I turn the water off for town driving.

    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    I have just noticed Jaycar have re-listed the Hall effect sensor ($19.95 outlined in the kit instructions originally. This was unavailable for years, and now after I have done all my research into other options they bring it back.
    This makes the high energy ignition very attractive again, just have to hide the box out of sight in the rear of the R10. (to keep original look as much as possible.
    Now please excuse my ignorance, and without having to go into too much detail, what is the 'Hall Effect', and the associated benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by HONG KONG PUGGY
    3/ A 505SR electronic ignition would be another option. I know of one in a wreckers here in Brisbane, but I am sure Ray B knows of one somewhere
    This is not a bad idea. Although I have only recently changed my distributor to an M48, and with the hassles we had getting it in, I know a couple of people down here would just shake their head if I decided to change it again after less than 6 months. All that effort for nowt - there will be much crying and gnashing of teeth.

    Matt
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