Pushrod upgrade for 504 Ti engine??
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  1. #1
    Member asa504's Avatar
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    Icon6 Pushrod upgrade for 504 Ti engine??

    Hi all,

    Hereís one for all those rally and engine pro guys.

    I've been building up a Ti engine for quite some time now and about the last thing i have left to do is upgrade the pushrods.
    I had opted to go with chrome moly 5/16 pushrods but do you think i could get anyone to make any. No chance.

    I've seen a lot of modified Ti engines in the rallied 504's and Iím wondering what you all did about the pushrods??

    One option I have is to section rods and machine them up for an interference fit into some moly tube. This is by far not what I would like to do but the ball on a pug rod is 9mm, and not 5/16, and so custom rods were out of the question anyway. Atleast anything from the yanks as they all use imperial.

    What do you fella's do??? Is the standard rod strong enough?

    Also, so I can do an analysis on the bending of the rods, does anyone know the hardness of a rod??

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    Cheers guys.
    Aaron

  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    the last TI i saw bend rods didn't do it till it hit 9000rpm

    i have never seen bent rods from normal or hard use and normal rev ranges up to 7k rpm should be ok

    unless there is something i don't know about i think you will be fine with a good set of rods
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  3. #3
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    If you really want to, use the 5/16" balls... they'll just seat in the followers on a narrower band and maybe need some adjusting until they've worn in.

    But what about the top end? Do they make cup ends too? I've only ever seen balls at both ends on that sort of pushrod...

    As for bending standard rods, the only ones I've ever seen of those were those in an engine that wasn't working real hard at all. As far as I know, anyway... but it happened when the conrod let go after big end bolts came undone.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    The pushrods from vw bugs were titanium and the used to fit straight into ? which motor? I can't remember. Was it the 504 or 403 or something else completely different?

    ed ge

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Default Titanium OK???

    ASA504,
    Very timly request, I found this company from a link yesterday, and favourited them for future reference. It may help. Not sure how much ready$$$ you'll need but good luck.
    Chris
    http://www.ridgecrest.com.au/
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  6. #6
    Member asa504's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info guys.

    I've had a look at the ridgecrest site and they appear promising if i decide to go with custom pushrods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    If you really want to, use the 5/16" balls... they'll just seat in the followers on a narrower band and maybe need some adjusting until they've worn in.

    But what about the top end? Do they make cup ends too? I've only ever seen balls at both ends on that sort of pushrod...

    As for bending standard rods, the only ones I've ever seen of those were those in an engine that wasn't working real hard at all. As far as I know, anyway... but it happened when the conrod let go after big end bolts came undone.
    I dont think using 5/16" ends would be any good as the force on the end of the pushrod will become a point force and will wear either the ball or cup in the cam follower or both.

    Perhaps the standard rods are good enough. I'm not looking at goin over 6 - 6500 revs anyway.

    I would like to here from those guys that build and race the 504 engines, i've seen them on dave mcbeans site putting out about 190 hp. Anyone know if these rods are standard?

    Cheers,
    Aaron

  7. #7
    Member LynCliff's Avatar
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    We use the standard pushrods on our rally car with wades 70-30 Cam and have had no trouble so far.
    We did have a problem with the rocker-gear hitting the rocker cover due to the extra lift but solved this with a bit of panel beating on the cover.
    We set the change light to 6500 rpm and it spends a lot time at or above this (7000 tops) during a rally, sounds good to!

    Lyncliff

  8. #8
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    No idea... but what about this point?

    I believe there is oil flows through the rod, from the bottom to the top... if you use a hollow piece of anything, it will carry a lot of oil, right?

    That oil will also weight something... how much do you gain?

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! WAUTY205's Avatar
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    I have found no problems using standard rods in my rally car, as far as strength is concerned, even using over 7000rpm. (I just have problems in keeping pistons in one piece ) But I guess if you can get some lighter rods it might has some improvement but I think it would be too small to worry.
    -Will
    1990 205Gti
    1976 504 rally car (currently out of action)

  10. #10
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAUTY205
    I have found no problems using standard rods in my rally car, as far as strength is concerned, even using over 7000rpm. (I just have problems in keeping pistons in one piece )
    I think the trick is to use AE piston and liner kits in preference to any of the other kits commonly available, because as far as I know the AE pistons are the only ones with the skirt and gudgeon area fully attached to the crown all the way around.

    Dave
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  11. #11
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Indeed, the ones I got about three years ago were very nice... but earlier AE sets had the slot all the way round and weren't as good.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Pushrod upgrade for 504 Ti engine

    Quote Originally Posted by LynCliff
    We use the standard pushrods on our rally car with wades 70-30 Cam and have had no trouble so far.
    We did have a problem with the rocker-gear hitting the rocker cover due to the extra lift but solved this with a bit of panel beating on the cover.
    We set the change light to 6500 rpm and it spends a lot time at or above this (7000 tops) during a rally, sounds good to!

    Lyncliff
    Lyncliff,
    By fitting your high lift cam you found you've had to panel beat the cover to clear the rockers?

    If I recall, when high lift cams are fitted it is necessary to fit spacers under the rocker pedestals equivalent to the extra lift of the cam.
    Doing it your way you have altered the rocker ratio and have possibly robbed your 70 / 30 ? cam of some of its intended purpose.

    I queried your 70 / 30 cam. Shouldn't that be 30 / 70 ?
    Last edited by Wildebeest; 6th April 2005 at 01:07 AM. Reason: spelling

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