new rolling stock setup
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  1. #1
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    Default new rolling stock setup

    b4 anything else i did a search and couldn't find anything, so if there is, plz guide me to it.

    owning a '68' R10, the wheels as stock are now too skinny for my liking.
    so i want to upgrade the wheels...now i know i'll need new hubs for one, but i was thinking of puttin a new brake kit in, instead.

    so i was jus wondering if any1 else has done this?, that is, take the stock R10 wheels and replace them with slightly larger ones, and changing the brakes over and to account for a 5 stud wheel.

    what would be recommended to upgrade to?, ppl tell me all diff things, but i'd rather get some good advice, not jus dribs and drabs of it.

    i'm new to the technical workings of changing existing setups, so bare with my noobishness.

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    a total cost would be appreciated if ppl could.
    i know it depends on what i get, but a rough price range for light to medium spending on these alterations.

    thanx

  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I think that perhaps you are wasting a lot of worry and concern on the three-stud wheels... they're okay, just get some wider rims put on them.

    The cost of changing to 5-stud or anything else is likely to be horrendous.

    The 3-stud wheels have proved fine in rallying, racing and all sorts of conditions all over the world.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    I have 3 stud alloy Perfomance Superlite wheels (15 x 6 Minilite copy) on my 4CV, with R 10 disc brakes all round. Performance did these for me a few years ago, although I did have to get some holes milled in the back of the wheels to go over the disc retaining bolts. At that time they were $180 ea with the correct 3 x 150 pattern. You would have to mention the additional machining for the bolts.

    The only slight disadvantage is that the wheel is for 4WD to accomodate the large PCD, and have extra gusseting in the back, that comes with a wheel for 4WD. A light alloy wheel would weigh around 6 Kg, whereas these are 7.5Kg, but do look pretty.

    For those weak of leg, a brake booster can be fitted in the engine bay. This would be the only mod really necessary for a moderately modified R 10.

    I ran a hot 16 motor in an R8 for many years of successful competition with only standard brakes.
    Last edited by alan moore; 21st March 2005 at 04:10 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Ray, won't i need to get special rims made up for the 3 stud pattern?, as i do not see these patterns anymore at places i've looked at.

  5. #5
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    You can get different rims welded onto your original centres... that's what Bruce Collier used to have done years ago for his customers.

    I'm sure he went for something like 5.5" x 13" for them, but today you'd surely go for a 6" x 15" as they're so readily available off Commodores and Falcons. And low profile tyres are so easy to get too.

    If you look to have something made up, they'll always finish up like those ugly Sunraysia things...

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    My mate had his R10 steel wheels made a few inches wider for much less than new wheels, and he can keep the original hub caps. The car is lowered, and the combination looks hot.Very agressive,and scary in the wet!!
    Jo
    Ps . the Blue R10/8???? that was at my mechanics yard had a sticker on the rear window warning the people behind, that the car they were following has disk brakes hence superior stopping.!!!!French rice???

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    When making up steel wheels using Renault centres, use R16 Special 14" with a centre hole for easy balancing and more strength. The R10 wheels do not have enough strength around the studs after they have been widened, and used with stickier tyres. I have seen 3 of these widened R 10 wheels crack.
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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    I notice the new Smart Fortwo and Roadster have 3-stud alloys as standard. Is this the same pattern as a GS/R10 etc?

    Surely they would have a fairly large selection of aftermarket rims. Maybe they'd suit?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    My mate had his R10 steel wheels made a few inches wider for much less than new wheels, and he can keep the original hub caps. The car is lowered, and the combination looks hot.Very agressive,and scary in the wet!!
    Jo
    Ps . the Blue R10/8???? that was at my mechanics yard had a sticker on the rear window warning the people behind, that the car they were following has disk brakes hence superior stopping.!!!!French rice???
    i'd rather get new rims then jus widen them, seems like too many probs could arise if not structured correctly.

    and the sticker u saw came standard, as they were the first cars to trial disc brakes (this is what i was told)

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Okay, mate... listen close and I'll give you some history...

    Jaguar used disc brakes as far back as 1952, but even they weren't the first...

    They had 4-wheel disc brakes on the Mk 2 Jag 3.8s in 1960 if not before, so the R8s were definitely not the first to 'trial disc brakes.'

    Now, as for the wheels, I'd say the advice to use R16 wheels is good advice, I didn't know they had the same pitch circle diameter or I would have suggested it.

    If you want wider rims than they have, just get the rims taken off and new ones welded on, there are plenty of 6" rims around that will go straight on and there are no quality/strength/fatigue issues with doing that at all.

  11. #11
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i though Fiat were the first to have 4 wheel discs
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I think Renault beat Fiat... but I may be wrong...

    But they weren't the first, anyway.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    I think Renault beat Fiat... but I may be wrong...

    But they weren't the first, anyway.


    when did the 2300 come out as that had them, well i know my old mans coupes did

    i'll have to ask him next time i am on the phone to him
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  14. #14
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    The coupe, obviously, was a cut above the sedan, but you might be right, the sedan might have had them anyway...

    The R8 came out in 1962, IIRC (someone here would know) and the 2300 was probably the same year. But the coupe might have been a year later.

    Even so, Jags and Astons had them before that. The Jag E-type came out in 1960, for instance. And another car that had them was the Austin-Healey 100S... 1954 would you believe? And the 100M (c 1955), though that was possibly a dealer installed option.

    Don't forget that Crosleys had discs in the forties.

  15. #15
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    in my normal hunger for knowledge i just had to do some research

    i hope everyone finds this interesting

    1952

    Disc brakes: Modern-type disc brakes, designed by Dunlop, were fitted to the Jaguar entries in the 1952 Mille Miglia. They were subsequently used on the C-Type that won the Le Mans in 1953 and were fitted as standard to the Jaguar D-Type and Austin-Healey 100S in 1954. The Jensen 541 had disc brakes on all four wheels in 1956.

    General Motors introduces air-conditioning. (See 1938)

    The Mercedes-Benz 300 SL sports car has vertically opening doors and the engine canted at 45 degrees to lower body.



    1954

    The CitroŽn DS appears on the scene with active self-levelling, rising rate fully independent hydro-pneumatic suspension, self levelling lights, clutchless gear change, removable composite body - fibreglass, aluminium, stainless steel, plastic and steel. CD factor - approx.33, inboard disc brakes, automatic variable braking between front and rear to compensate for load, zero scrub power steering, positive power braking, energy absorbing crash protection sections.

    Cadillac uses twin headlamps

    Buick uses wraparound windscreen.

    The first petrol-engined private car with fuel injection as standard is the three-litre, gullwing Mercedes-Benz 300 SE.



    1956

    Jensen 541 is the first British car with disc brakes on all four wheels.
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  16. #16
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    As mentioned, Crosley was first...

    There is some talk on some sites of them being fitted from 1939, but this one (from http://www.ggw.org/~cac/SS-Cobras-part2.html ) seems more authoritative.

    On, or about May 15, 1949, Crosley made history again. A new hydraulic brake replaced the previous mechanical brake system on all Crosley models. The new system happened to be disc brakes . . . and on all four wheels. This brake was a spot disc and was the granddaddy of all modern disc brakes. So in 1949 you could buy an overhead cam engined, four wheel disc braked American sports car! And this sports car was cheaper than any other car on the market! There had not been anything like it before and, sadly, there has not been anything like it since. America's only European style sports car was a Crosley. Despite this, Crosley production continued its downward curve, hitting only 7,612 cars and trucks in 1950. Of this number, 742 were "roadsters".
    So not only was the Crosley first of all, but it was first with 4-wheel discs.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Ray Bell]Okay, mate... listen close and I'll give you some history...
    QUOTE]

    iite, don't go teacher on me, if u read what i said, it was clearly explained that it was "what i was told" not like i was preachin it from ma own mouth, damn.

    sounded like u were havin a go at me for makin such a comment.....

    well anyway, thanx for all input up in here.

  18. #18
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Not a problem...

    But you must appreciate that if you ask questions or imply that you want something confirmed, someone is likely to answer you in that way.

    I thought that was a nice friendly way of covering the subject...

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADZ-R10
    and the sticker u saw came standard, as they were the first cars to trial disc brakes (this is what i was told)
    Those little disks on R8s worked fantastically well - hence the sticker.
    By then a handfull of cars already had 4 wheel disks, but they didnt work very well. It took english cars a decade or so before they surpassed good disk/drum combinations. I had a 1961 E type Jag for many years and the brakes were woefull. But the speed & power were awesome - plus it was an unequalled chickmagnet, thats why I put up with it. My 68 404 with drums ('thermo stable') would outbrake the E Type anyday.
    So many projects - so little time.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Default DISK BRAKES & OTHER STUFF

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Not a problem...

    But you must appreciate that if you ask questions or imply that you want something confirmed, someone is likely to answer you in that way.

    I thought that was a nice friendly way of covering the subject...

    .... And very interesting as well. IMHO this background info is one of the major attractions of an enthusiasts forum

    We all get a wealth of info presented to us plus as insight into the people presenting it.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Not a problem...

    But you must appreciate that if you ask questions or imply that you want something confirmed, someone is likely to answer you in that way.

    I thought that was a nice friendly way of covering the subject...
    You're both right.....I have some period R8 brochures, and they have a distinct selling slogan "first in their CLASS with 4 wheel disc brakes", they acknowleged that there were other prestige cars, who beat them there, but it was the first time they appeared on a small family type car.

    Ps - I've got both types of widened wheels in 13 & 14", and run 15x 4.5" on my modified R10. It's worth remembering that if you use the R16 centres (which look ace), you have to use R16 wheel nuts so budget in a full set of wheel nuts as well

    KB
    Last edited by renault8&10; 9th April 2005 at 08:55 AM.

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