Lumenition????
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Thread: Lumenition????

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Lumenition????

    I've just spent a few hours fitting a 2nd hand Lumenition Ignition system to my '79 504 GL. Unfortunately I couldn't get it to work. I have questions.
    1. It must have been fitted to early 504 because it came with a Bosch distributor. The condenser has been removed, I believe this is normal for this system.[Lumenition]?
    2.I've mounted the heat sink box on thr RH wheel well near the brake pipe info sticker. It should be cool enough there? Two wires from this go to the coil Pos & Neg. Other wires go to the distributor via a harness with plug in connection. There is an earth wire at the heat sink. All the wiring appears obvious even though I'm working without full instructions.
    3. With everything connected and ignition on should the light beam in the distributor be on? I haven't observed this with the engine turning on the starter, only when stationary.
    4. Initial timing was done by aligning marks on crank pulley and then the dist. rotor to position 1, notch on dist. body.
    5. With all the leads connected in the right order came the moment of truth.
    Nothing, not even a pop. Connecting a proper test spark plug to no1 lead I cranked it over. Not a flicker, zero.
    6. As my '79 504 has a tacho where the early models didn't could this be upsetting things? I didn't try it with the tacho disconnected.
    Original Ducellier system put back in and we're in business.

    Anyone out there familiar with the Lumenition system who may be able to help.

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Default Lumenition

    Hold on, a friend of mine had the agency and knows everything and a bit more. I will contact him and send info and testing procedures for you. Watch this space!!
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Lumenition! I pity you, I've been there.
    I found the Lumenition on my Cortina so unreliable that I carried a full spare setup in the cubby. Eventually I just went back to points and condensor. The optical eye/switch was the most popular to pack up.
    My father had exactly the same experiences with his Sierra, so it wasn't just my bad luck. After he had to put the points and condensor back next to the road in the middle of the night without a torch he also went back to points permanently.
    Sorry this is probably not what you want to hear.

    Ryan

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Have a look at this site:
    www.m&wignitions.com.au

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    Peter,

    You might want to revise your posted url, it leads nowhere.

    Matt.
    On the internet, no one knows that you are only wearing a fez.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    www.mwignitions.com not .au

    Tim

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    I've just spent a few hours fitting a 2nd hand Lumenition Ignition system to my '79 504 GL. Unfortunately I couldn't get it to work. I have questions.
    1. It must have been fitted to early 504 because it came with a Bosch distributor. The condenser has been removed, I believe this is normal for this system.[Lumenition]?
    2.I've mounted the heat sink box on thr RH wheel well near the brake pipe info sticker. It should be cool enough there? Two wires from this go to the coil Pos & Neg. Other wires go to the distributor via a harness with plug in connection. There is an earth wire at the heat sink. All the wiring appears obvious even though I'm working without full instructions.
    3. With everything connected and ignition on should the light beam in the distributor be on? I haven't observed this with the engine turning on the starter, only when stationary.
    4. Initial timing was done by aligning marks on crank pulley and then the dist. rotor to position 1, notch on dist. body.
    5. With all the leads connected in the right order came the moment of truth.
    Nothing, not even a pop. Connecting a proper test spark plug to no1 lead I cranked it over. Not a flicker, zero.
    6. As my '79 504 has a tacho where the early models didn't could this be upsetting things? I didn't try it with the tacho disconnected.
    Original Ducellier system put back in and we're in business.

    Anyone out there familiar with the Lumenition system who may be able to help.

    I found the spark to be less intense than for the points system, a faulty spark plug insulator flashed over more with the original system. Maybe the Lumenition was a little better at high revs.
    Also, I blew up a module when I connected the wires to the coil back to front.
    Maybe this is what has been previously done with yours?
    Graham

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Frans's Avatar
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    Default Testing Lumenition

    So many guys have so many problems, yet I've heard of vehicles gone to the scrap yard and the Lumenition were taken out and transfered to the next car because all you need that differs is the mounting kit inside the distributor. Did the unhappy customers check the coil resistance? If you swap the + and - on various other electronic equipment it will also pop. Ross has a secondhand Lumenition in his racing Dauphine and has never missed a beat.
    In any case, this is what you should do. Your red and black on the unit goes to battery + and - . Make sure the short black makes a good earth on the normally painted body. On the old models the wire that goes to the coil - is brown. On the later models that brown changed to Violet. The 3 wires in the harness is blue, black and red. They should stay the same in the plug.
    You will not see a light in the optic switch and if the "chopper' in the distributor moves through the optic switch and here is no spark, undo the plug and bridge the blue and black wire with a paperclip or something. let the coil lead lie close to metal and if it sparks then, it means that the box of tricks is good and the optic switch is faulty.
    At least you know where the problem is. A very important point is that you should measure between the coil + and - with all wires disconnected. The reading should be greater than 3 ohms. If not, it will pack up soon, so you must add one of those inline resistors available at Supercheap etc.
    Try it and let me know. I might have a spare optical switch.
    Regards
    Frans
    Old enough to know better
    Young enough to do it anyway.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Lumenition or not?

    Frans,
    Very grateful for the trouble you have gone to. Will copy your reply for when I have another go at it. I seem to have it wired correctly so I will go through the test procedures.BTW mine doesn't have the mauve wire mentioned, it must be an earlier model.
    Thanks also to the other helpful and humorous replies.

  10. #10
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Frans,
    Very grateful for the trouble you have gone to. Will copy your reply for when I have another go at it. I seem to have it wired correctly so I will go through the test procedures.BTW mine doesn't have the mauve wire mentioned, it must be an earlier model.
    Thanks also to the other helpful and humorous replies.
    I considered Lumentition a few years back and decided not to go there at the price. I bought a new distributor for the R8 about 12 years ago and haven't yet needed to touch the points (even to adjust them) - partly low km and partly the always extraordinary performance of the standard Ducellier system.

    I guess the one thing you'd want above all else is complete reliability with such systems. I wondered if Lucas own Lumentition after reading the comments above, but would really expect an optical system to perform pretty well unless abused (like incorrectly connected!).

    I'll be interested to hear how you get on. Anyway, good luck with it.

    Cheers

    John

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Lumenition. yea or nay.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW
    I considered Lumentition a few years back and decided not to go there at the price. I bought a new distributor for the R8 about 12 years ago and haven't yet needed to touch the points (even to adjust them) - partly low km and partly the always extraordinary performance of the standard Ducellier system.

    I guess the one thing you'd want above all else is complete reliability with such systems. I wondered if Lucas own Lumentition after reading the comments above, but would really expect an optical system to perform pretty well unless abused (like incorrectly connected!).

    I'll be interested to hear how you get on. Anyway, good luck with it.

    Cheers

    John
    John W.
    My fellow Peugeot travellers had previously warned me that great harm can befall a young man should he go down the technological road.

    As I only outlayed $20 for the whole box and dice I didn't think I had much to lose. My attempt to get things working caused me great angst so I will be relegating the Lumenition to my shelf of lost causes.

    There is something to be said about the old tech Ducellier system, should the points faces get a little charred a quick rub on a concrete path will get you going!

  12. #12
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    John W.
    My fellow Peugeot travellers had previously warned me that great harm can befall a young man should he go down the technological road.

    As I only outlayed $20 for the whole box and dice I didn't think I had much to lose. My attempt to get things working caused me great angst so I will be relegating the Lumenition to my shelf of lost causes.

    There is something to be said about the old tech Ducellier system, should the points faces get a little charred a quick rub on a concrete path will get you going!
    Just found this, some years on....

    I've been having an irregular, but rare, cut-out and go again problem with the CX, and the odd case of burnt points - I'm not used to nonsense like this of course with the Renaults!

    Did you ever get the Lumentition system working?
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Naaah, Johnno,
    A rare act of generosity had me donate it to another 504 owner, he! he! he!

    With your other problem. Most of the pundits out here would opt for a new condenser.

  14. #14
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest View Post
    Naaah, Johnno,
    A rare act of generosity had me donate it to another 504 owner, he! he! he!

    With your other problem. Most of the pundits out here would opt for a new condenser.
    Thanks John. Sensible gift, especially from the giver's perspective!!

    I've replaced points and condenser and mostly it is perfect in running. Occasionally though, it drops in and out and snatches a bit and comes back, all in a very "electrical" way.

    The thing has a ballast resistor so twice as many connections as I'm used to, and all are spades not nuts! The BR looks a bit old and toasty so maybe I should put my new spare on....... However, dud components rarely "get better" so I suspect a connection.

    Cheers
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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