404 5 speed
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Thread: 404 5 speed

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! 1pugnut's Avatar
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    Default 404 5 speed

    I am looking at putting a ba7/5 box in a 404 ute I have access to one out of a 505 gti wagon ,can you us a ba7 4 speed imput sharft and bell housing so it will bolt up to a 2 litre ti motor or not
    regards jamie

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    Fellow Frogger! friday403's Avatar
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    Default Good Question

    Well I can't help with the technical knowledge, but I always enjoy a good ute discussion, so I'm watching with interest!

    I once saw a beautiful 203 ute at the Denny ute muster and drooled for weeks....



    Chris Andrews

    (404 African Ute)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1pugnut
    I am looking at putting a ba7/5 box in a 404 ute I have access to one out of a 505 gti wagon ,can you us a ba7 4 speed imput sharft and bell housing so it will bolt up to a 2 litre ti motor or not
    regards jamie
    A guy in Adelaide did exactly what you are proposing and within a couple of weeks the gear box starting making a hell of a noise. Seems the gears are not compatible.
    Just wait around for a box out of an SLI, SR or very late GR.
    Graham

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    A guy in Adelaide did exactly what you are proposing and within a couple of weeks the gear box starting making a hell of a noise. Seems the gears are not compatible.
    Just wait around for a box out of an SLI, SR or very late GR.
    Graham
    Graham,
    Any more details on the Adelaide gearbox failure, noise and the incompatibility of the gears? The latter I find hard to understand.
    If a different bell housing was employed could it have put an incorrect pre-load or end float on the front bearings?
    If the torque tube/driveshaft had to be altered could a wrong measurement, not allowing some fore and aft movement in the drive shaft create a loading on the rear gearbox bearings?

    There were only two things I would have liked on my 404, a floor change and an extra gear. In the 16 years I enjoyed with my "Old Blu" I would still find myself reaching for one more gear!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Graham,
    Any more details on the Adelaide gearbox failure, noise and the incompatibility of the gears? The latter I find hard to understand.
    If a different bell housing was employed could it have put an incorrect pre-load or end float on the front bearings?
    If the torque tube/driveshaft had to be altered could a wrong measurement, not allowing some fore and aft movement in the drive shaft create a loading on the rear gearbox bearings?

    There were only two things I would have liked on my 404, a floor change and an extra gear. In the 16 years I enjoyed with my "Old Blu" I would still find myself reaching for one more gear!
    Yes, seems the gears are incompatable, not the only such conversion which has given trouble. Don't know any more details, gearboxes are one thing I never have anything to do on a matter of principle!
    Graham

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I put the input shaft from a mid-70s 504 into an STi box and have done over 10,000kms with no ill effects, even though I'm frequently towing and virtually always in fifth gear.

    But the input shaft from a 404 box is different, and it simply won't fit. The bearing size on the spigot at the front of the mainshaft is too small. The primary gear in the 404 box is also different.

    I tried a number of 504 input shafts in a number of STi/GTi boxes (by hand, I mean) and found them all to mesh properly, so I don't understand what the problem is with the one from Adelaide.

    If you have a BA7/5 from the alloy engined cars and it has a worn primary gear on the layshaft, it's not a big deal to cut the gear from a 504 layshaft and graft it in, then use the 504 input shaft and bellhousing.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Default Floor Change ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Graham,

    There were only two things I would have liked on my 404, a floor change and an extra gear. In the 16 years I enjoyed with my "Old Blu" I would still find myself reaching for one more gear!

    I found the 404 column shift to be the best gearchange in a sedan car that I had ever used. Provided, of course all the bearings and ball joints were in good condition.

    I'm looking at a 5 speed down the track and would like to use the column.

    The 504s were'nt nearlty as fast or nice.

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    I found the column change in my 404 ute only OK ....with one serious drawback . I don't know what the rated load of the ute is , but I found that with around a ton [ avoirdupois ] , due to a combination of leaf springs & the torque tube being rigidly fixed to the gearbox , the whole power unit & box moved forward . This changed the relationship of the column to the box & gears were imposible to change . Also the fan moved dangerously close to the radiator !

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    You've got a problem then...

    I remember back in the early seventies I was following a 404 ute loaded to the gills with orange juice. It had a van body built on it, and the juice bottles were stacked high, really high.

    I talked to the guy and had a look at the thing... it had some 'precautionary' bits of threaded rod, maybe 5/8" thick stuff, folded round the axle tubes to make additional U-bolts in case the load was too much.

    No issues with the engine moving... I'd look at your spring shackles, methinks.

    This thing was carrying two tons easily... which by the way is very little different whether it's metric or imperial. 2240lbs for an Imperial ton, 2204.6lbs for a metric tonne.
    Last edited by Ray Bell; 9th February 2005 at 11:38 PM.

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    Tadpole GaulStone's Avatar
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    Yes , I did re-bush the shackles , which made minimal difference . I no longer have this 404 ute . Owned it in Wagga Wagga & sold it into Victoria in the mid-1980's . It served me well & responed to a hard life with utter reliability .

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    You've got a problem then...

    I remember back in the early seventies I was following a 404 ute loaded to the gills with orange juice. It had a van body built on it, and the juice bottles were stacked high, really high.

    I talked to the guy and had a look at the thing... it had some 'precautionary' bits of threaded rod, maybe 5/8" thick stuff, folded round the axle tubes to make additional U-bolts in case the load was too much.

    No issues with the engine moving... I'd look at your spring shackles, methinks.

    This thing was carrying two tons easily... which by the way is very little different whether it's metric or imperial. 2240lbs for an Imperial ton, 2204.6lbs for a metric tonne.
    The spring shackles have nothing to do with the location of the rear axle (except for sideways). The rear gearbox mount does the same job as it does in the sedans and is probably falling apart in this Ute
    Graham

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i had a 403 ute that had a caravan body on the back of it

    now then you could only get 2 gears in that thing

    on closer inspection the rear shackles were at weird angles and if you put a winch onto the rear axle to pull everything back in line you could select every gear
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  13. #13
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    oh i forgot to add

    that ute was a 64 model sold out of york motors in sydney and when i got it it had only covered something like 29k miles
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  14. #14
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    The spring shackles have nothing to do with the location of the rear axle (except for sideways). The rear gearbox mount does the same job as it does in the sedans and is probably falling apart in this Ute
    Yes, I realise that Graham... I was thinking that perhaps the shackles were locked up at one end and preventing the free movement of the axle backwards and forwards according to spring deflection.

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