Changed Your Oil Lately?
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Default Changed Your Oil Lately?

    Here are two pics of the Mi16 cylinder head I recently dismantled. This car has done just 150 000Km. It looks like the oil had never been changed. It must have had at least one change, as it had an after market filter.

    That black stuff is like tar and it crumbles easily. All the socket headed cap screws are full with the stuff.

    It gets worse from there. This is an iron block engine. It has bad piston ridges in the bore. Quite incrediable considering the low mileage.

    The oil filler pipe, approx. 38mm in diameter, was almost completely blocked. You can imagine what the sump looks like!

    Amazingly, the crank is in reasonable condition.

    This engine started easily and ran well.

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    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  2. #2
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    After one attempt at getting that oil filter out of the maze, they probably thought, "never again!"...


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Changed your oil lately?

    Peter T,
    You mentioned this example of the M16 engine had an iron block. What year and type is this? Also what year had the alloy block? This would certainly influence my hypothetical purchase of an M16!

    To hijack your thread PT. Can someone provide details of later Peugeots that had iron blocks,ie types 1 and 2 and the year?

    Stuey, the Renault 19 were a mongrel to remove their oil filter. If they had the "stubby" filter they were OK. It was the air con gear that caused the grief. When servicing the 19 I would remove the short lever on the throttle body to facilitate removal. I think the lever was for connecting up cruise control. I had quite a few of the levers in my mechanics box of treasures!

  4. #4
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    OMG!!! Looks like they accidently added molasses instead of oil!
    Last edited by Nisspug; 28th January 2005 at 12:22 AM.

  5. #5
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Ahh yes, an old 20W/50 man from "No Frills" country.
    But think of all the money he saved in oil changes, after all, the book says something about 10,000 klms oil changes doesn't it?
    How are you ever going to get that clean? I thought the series one 16V was bad but that tops it. On that, they used a washer from an engine rebuild shop that is a top of the market model after I think they bead blasted it (second hand information coming from a second hand brain) and eventually they had to drill out the ends of some of the oil galleys so the crap could be pushed through and then plugged; methinks you've got the same job there for sure.
    That's the kind of pic that should get posted every time someone starts talking about how far they can go between oil changes and why mineral oils are as good as synthetics.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Ahh yes, an old 20W/50 man from "No Frills" country.
    But think of all the money he saved in oil changes, after all, the book says something about 10,000 klms oil changes doesn't it?
    How are you ever going to get that clean? I thought the series one 16V was bad but that tops it. On that, they used a washer from an engine rebuild shop that is a top of the market model after I think they bead blasted it (second hand information coming from a second hand brain) and eventually they had to drill out the ends of some of the oil galleys so the crap could be pushed through and then plugged; methinks you've got the same job there for sure.
    That's the kind of pic that should get posted every time someone starts talking about how far they can go between oil changes and why mineral oils are as good as synthetics.

    Alan S
    There is a far simpler way of cleaning this block and head.
    Duck down to Mitre 10 and get 5m of gal chain. Put the chain around the block (through the bore) and secure with a good sized bolt. Hoist the block and chain assembly onto a Ute. Take it down to the nearest ocean view and immerse the block in slightly salty water. By the time the block has dissolved away the "grunge" in the oil galleries will be easily accessible and can then be removed.

    P.S. The block and chain can be rented out or sold as a mooring (the money can go towards a replacement motor).

    P.P.S. I have dealt with this kind of motoraside (killing of an engine) in the past, (Holden 6cyl and dogwoo) and the amount of time to do the job properly could be put to better things like.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    What a mess.
    1990 series 1, 405 Mi16 <-- Sold
    1998 Nissan 180sx TypeX, 2lt, rwd Turbo.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    even the 400k 604 engine i pulled down was no where near that bad

    that is just criminal and the previous owner should be keelhauled
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Default Great Advert for Synth/Semi-synth Oils

    Just as Alan said, post evry time someone crows about length of time between oil changes. Synthetic or semi-synthetic oils are a much better proposition these days, and the small price premium is negligable comparred to that mess!!
    It probably falls on deaf ears though to all but we 'car fanatics'. Mainly because the average person in the street has a car for getting form A>B etc. They sell the car after a couple of years and the problems associated with their ignorance and neglect, the higher milage problems are going to be someone elses.
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  10. #10
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    yeah its like i always said...

    If you dont look after your car, then DONT complain about the stinky one you're following!!!

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    On the topic of synthetic vs. mineral oils (vs. semi-synth) - what are peoples opinions/experiences running a well used engine ( > 150,000) on synthetic, when it has experienced a lifetime diet of mineral or mixed oil?

    I've seen one example of a high mileage engine with previous diet of mineral oil (and in apparently good condition), suddenly start blowing smoke at idle after a change to synthetic oil (with a lower SAE rating). The change back to mineral oil removed the smoking. It was as if the detergents in the synthetic oil started breaking down years of built up carbon deposits, and started circulating them through the motor. If that was the case, is it really a good idea to start disturbing years of caked-on carbon deposits? Or is there another explanation?

    Regardless of whether you use mineral, semi, or full synthetic - I think the most important thing is regular changes of oil and filter, and keeping oil topped up if necessary. I think a dramatic change in the type of oil used on a car (type and viscosity range) should be made with a degree of caution.

    Any thoughts?

    Trev
    '92 405 mi16

  12. #12
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    full synth in mine and 7k oil and filter changes or 6 months whichever comes first

    normally the time will come first before mileage so i think that is pretty well spoiling the little puggy

    the 604 will go onto semi or full synth at the next change and will also be under the same rules as above
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Peter T,
    You mentioned this example of the M16 engine had an iron block. What year and type is this? Also what year had the alloy block? This would certainly influence my hypothetical purchase of an M16!

    To hijack your thread PT. Can someone provide details of later Peugeots that had iron blocks,ie types 1 and 2 and the year?
    This is an XU10J4 engine as fiited to '93-'95 2L Mi16 and S16. Full iron block (no liners) and alloy head. Later deritives of the same are the XU10J4R and XU10J4RS (as fitted to GTi6). There was also a 2 valve version, XU10J2 as fiited to 405's and Xantias.

    The XU9J4 and XU9J2 (4 and 2 valves respectively) are full alloy 1.9L engines (with cast iron liners) as fitted to early 405's and BX's. The XU5 is the 1.6L version.

    I've so far got three quotes for pistons. Two local Pug dealers both wanted $3030 for an OEM oversize piston/ring kit. HiFlow (UK) want 320 GBP for the same. I'm speaking to JP Pistons in SA on Monday.

    The piston squirters will clean up OK. Not sure about the hydraulic lifters though, with that crap in them. The cams don't look too bad but I haven't measured them yet.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jester_fu
    I think the regular change approach is prudent, and certainly allows for continuing good results with mineral oils, if thats what you are using. Synthetics really do come into their own in more modern engines where service intervals are higher and stress loads are greater on the materials used. But, my little beasty is being spoilt with 10k oil/filter changes AND a full synthetic oil. Ooooh... and to top it all off, 10k km oil sampling as well. Now, who's got a spoilt pug?
    I agree. Frequent oil changes are the best medicine for any engine.

    Spoilt pug. The SII GTI gets oil and filter at 5k km wether its needs it or not. (yes true), a recent head service(first time off) at 350k km, no deposits in the head, all components in very good order, original hone marks still fully evident in the bore, a quick valve cut and stem seals just in case, all ok and running.

    Penrite HPR 30 used and recommended.

    A change takes around an hour and all manner of slight problems are detected and remidied before turning into expensive failures.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevMi16
    ...suddenly start blowing smoke at idle after a change to synthetic oil (with a lower SAE rating). The change back to mineral oil removed the smoking. It was as if the detergents in the synthetic oil started breaking down years of built up carbon deposits, and started circulating them through the motor...
    There's no reason to think that synthetics have stronger detergents in them, so I'd suggest it's wholly because of the viscosity.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma
    The SII GTI gets oil and filter at 5k km wether its needs it or not. (yes true), a recent head service(first time off) at 350k km, no deposits in the head, all components in very good order, original hone marks still fully evident in the bore, a quick valve cut and stem seals just in case, all ok and running.
    Pretty much the same regime here (same engine too)...

    I drive my car pretty hard at times. 250K and still going strong with no engine work at all...

    Oil comes out pretty clean after 5Kl.

    I only use Valvoline SynGaurd (or what ever it's called now). It's a semi-syn and is reasonably priced. I have been using it for the better part of 6 years and can't complain.

    I also remove the plugs every time I change the oil and get the oil pressure up first before refitting the plugs and starting the car...

    On a slightly off topic tangent, I also run Nulon long life engine treatment. Not sure why as I really don't know if it works or not but I have had an incident or two that really should have done some engine damage but have caused no problems...

    What are peoples opinion/experiences with additives such as slick 50 and nulon?

    Do we have any oil engineers on board???

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    I also remove the plugs every time I change the oil and get the oil pressure up first before refitting the plugs and starting the car...


    What are peoples opinion/experiences with additives such as slick 50 and nulon?
    I find that the oil pressure comes up in 2-3 sec even after a filter change. As such there should be enough oil left on surfaces to prevent wear.
    I might consider this course of action if you had someting like an old Holden with lifters, (but I do like to hear them clatter until the oil pressure gets up to 5psi, (min running press)).

    As for running additives--an expensive waste of time.
    The only time I have bothered is when selling a well worn HJ or HZ or similar .
    Then Mr stupid chip auto parts would $$$$in,-lifter quiet-diff deadener-no more smoke(2X bottles)-start you bastard-engine honey and so on.

    The 25X (50cent) solution is-- add 80wt gear oil for the lifters, two banana peels for the diff (yes it does work), one cup heated wheel bearing grease into the rocker cover for the smoking (warning--it is a fine line between liquid grease and flaming NAPALM ), always have the engine hot and ready for inspection for hard starters.

    Not that I would condone such dishonest measures.
    Last edited by Gamma; 29th January 2005 at 02:05 PM. Reason: Speeling
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
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    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Commint to memory......never buy a car form ANYONE in Picton. Ever.



    Better still, tell Gamma you'll be there at 10 and turn up at 9 and catch him at it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jester_fu
    But, my little beasty is being spoilt with 10k oil/filter changes AND a full synthetic oil. Ooooh... and to top it all off, 10k km oil sampling as well. Now, who's got a spoilt pug?
    5k oil & filter as well (or 6 months which ever first)...
    new plugs @ 25k

    it costs less than 1 tank of fuel to do a full oil & filter change.... umm why the heck not!
    plugs... meh...

    i also normally read to mine when he's in the garage ready to go to sleep...
    He likes "The little engine that could" its his favourite

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nate
    5k oil & filter as well (or 6 months which ever first)...
    new plugs @ 25k

    it costs less than 1 tank of fuel to do a full oil & filter change.... umm why the heck not!
    plugs... meh...


    i also normally read to mine when he's in the garage ready to go to sleep...
    He likes "The little engine that could" its his favourite
    maybe when the cars a little older you could show him the ari vatenen dvd or the in car view rally driver dvd so he knows whats expected of him when he grows up a bit .ha ha ha ha-BAZZ

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
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    Default Oil/Tar - same thing?

    Peter T,
    That engine wasn't from the USA by any chance? The only other engines I have seen like that were used V8's sold here for spares. I heard that it was to do with early unleaded fuel and cold weather - they were all the same!

    Re Oil Changes:
    Interesting that my Haynes manual (Megane/Scenic 1999-2002) recommends oil & filter change at 15,000 km (9000 miles) as they believe the Renault recommendation of 30,000km (18000 miles) is too far out!!!! How about that! And we are talking about 5000kms because its good for the engine?

    If this is true, then I believe Renault Australia are probably doing the 10000 km service interval because it has become the Aussie standard - I like it because its easy to remember! At the same time I have noticed the large capacity of the sump at 6.0 litres (nearly double some other 4 cyl car engines) and have decided that using good semi-synth oil at 10k intervals is quite satisfacory, given the above parameters. My

    Cheers, Fordman.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordman
    Peter T,
    That engine wasn't from the USA by any chance? The only other engines I have seen like that were used V8's sold here for spares. I heard that it was to do with early unleaded fuel and cold weather - they were all the same!

    Cheers, Fordman.
    No it came from wollongong, woman owner.

    I change oil every 6 months, regardless of the km. Short trips in the city aren't healthy.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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