short shift or quick shift ?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Default short shift or quick shift ?

    im confused[whats new]over an issue.when talking about a short shift some people are thinking i want a quick shift.
    now as far as i understand[not very]a short shift modification is done to one of the gear linkages that go between bell crank arm[L shaped linkage bracket]and the gear box .
    for a quickshift the modification is done to the bellcrank arm itself.
    both procedures take a certain amount off of either linkage arm or bellcrank arm.
    could someone please explain the actual operating ocurance on a short shift and a qhick shift.
    obviously the quick shift is meant for shifting quickly and the short shift is for reducing the length of the travel of the gear stick.
    i want the mod which reduces the gear stick travel length[shorter throw].
    now maybe ive got it all upside down so any clear explanation would be great and apologies for do-h factor-BAZZ

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    Fellow Frogger! JAG80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    im confused[whats new]over an issue.when talking about a short shift some people are thinking i want a quick shift.
    now as far as i understand[not very]a short shift modification is done to one of the gear linkages that go between bell crank arm[L shaped linkage bracket]and the gear box .
    for a quickshift the modification is done to the bellcrank arm itself.
    both procedures take a certain amount off of either linkage arm or bellcrank arm.
    could someone please explain the actual operating ocurance on a short shift and a qhick shift.
    obviously the quick shift is meant for shifting quickly and the short shift is for reducing the length of the travel of the gear stick.
    i want the mod which reduces the gear stick travel length[shorter throw].
    now maybe ive got it all upside down so any clear explanation would be great and apologies for do-h factor-BAZZ
    Bazz,
    My understanding is that the terms 'quick shift' and 'short shift' mean the same thing. I didn't know there was an actual difference in terms of which linkage arm is modified/replaced. Either way I'm sure that the end result would be to shorten the throw.
    Jonathan
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    Member ParanoidAndroid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAG80
    Bazz,
    My understanding is that the terms 'quick shift' and 'short shift' mean the same thing. I didn't know there was an actual difference in terms of which linkage arm is modified/replaced. Either way I'm sure that the end result would be to shorten the throw.
    Jonathan
    ...and since the throw is shorter the shift is quicker

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    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoidAndroid
    ...and since the throw is shorter the shift is quicker
    And since the shift is quicker the syncros wear out quicker

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    Fellow Frogger! WAUTY205's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    And since the shift is quicker the syncros wear out quicker
    But at least it stops you from feeling up your passengers leg when you go for first or second (unless of cause, you intend to ) or pushing the knob into the corner of the drivers seat ! -Will
    1990 205Gti
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    And since the shift is quicker the syncros wear out quicker
    You still "Granny shifting instead of double clutching like you should"

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    1000+ Posts Poo-Go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nate
    You still "Granny shifting instead of double clutching like you should"


    Go Vin Diesel!

    With a name like that, how could he not star in films about cars....
    Care factor = -273.15șC

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    Fellow Frogger! DJ-Studd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAUTY205
    But at least it stops you from feeling up your passengers leg when you go for first or second (unless of cause, you intend to ) or pushing the knob into the corner of the drivers seat ! -Will

    That sounds exactly like a 205

    -- DJ

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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Default Vin Deisel

    Sounds more like a particularly noxious red wine to me!

    Who ever got motoexcited about diesel?

    Except at a tractor pull.

    Cheers ed ge

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    Fellow Frogger! DJ-Studd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    Who ever got motoexcited about diesel?

    Except at a tractor pull.
    Don't 'ye go bad mouthin my tractor pulls!

    -- DJ

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    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nate
    You still "Granny shifting instead of double clutching like you should"

    yeah mate but it all dont mater when you live your life a quatermile at a time.
    or the alternate-live your life at a 10th of a second at a time-vin bazz

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    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    thanx for the info guys.it was cleared up last night by someone and also when grilling my mate who initially told me that the linkage is shortened said he actually ment the bellcrank arm.
    and it seems that shortshift and quickshift are the same thing.ta all -VIN BAZZ [i drive my 205 a quarter mile at a time]

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    drive my 205 a quarter mile at a time
    ...Then it breaks down and I call a tow truck

    Hmmmm....Double clutching with a sychro box..what ever tickles ya fancy...

    Heel-toeing on downchanges? Yes...as it has a beneficial purpose

    Double clutching whilst accelerating? No...unless the Renault happens to be of the Renault/Mack variety...

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=mistarenoHmmmm....Double clutching with a sychro box..what ever tickles ya fancy...

    Double clutching whilst accelerating? No...unless the Renault happens to be of the Renault/Mack variety...[/QUOTE]

    when i skip a cog, norm 2nd - 4th and also 4th - 5th there's a notable differnce... the timing is critical, but if its right you feel ZERO resistence to poppin it in gear, it just slides forward & you cant feel anything... satisfying if you can go to the trouble

    quote from the Toymods site... (owner of a stock cressida i thinks)
    "I live my life a quarter mile at a time, and for those 18 or so seconds, i'm free"
    *chuckle*

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    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    ...Then it breaks down and I call a tow truck

    Hmmmm....Double clutching with a sychro box..what ever tickles ya fancy...

    Heel-toeing on downchanges? Yes...as it has a beneficial purpose


    Double clutching whilst accelerating? No...unless the Renault happens to be of the Renault/Mack variety...
    mistareno,you are obviously not very tall cause the joke is going right over your head. ha ha ha
    the double clutching and quater mile at a time line are from the movie' fast and furious.'
    its the classic corny vin deisel hero talk bullshit and thats what we are taking the piss out of.
    check out the movie if only for the supercharged black dodge or the riced up jap cars that are nice to look at.-BAZZ

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    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=nate]
    Quote Originally Posted by mistarenoHmmmm....Double clutching with a sychro box..what ever tickles ya fancy...

    Double clutching whilst accelerating? No...unless the Renault happens to be of the Renault/Mack variety...[/QUOTE


    when i skip a cog, norm 2nd - 4th and also 4th - 5th there's a notable differnce... the timing is critical, but if its right you feel ZERO resistence to poppin it in gear, it just slides forward & you cant feel anything... satisfying if you can go to the trouble

    quote from the Toymods site... (owner of a stock cressida i thinks)
    "I live my life a quarter mile at a time, and for those 18 or so seconds, i'm free"
    *chuckle*
    love the toymods quote,im gonna steal that one=BAZZ

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    Fellow Frogger! two-oh-philic's Avatar
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    Anybody know anything about griffiths quick clutch and how it works? Fitting to a '96 306 xr
    205 GTi (S2 ) rolled

    '96 306XR "Sex" Black

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    Quote Originally Posted by two-oh-philic
    Anybody know anything about griffiths quick clutch and how it works? Fitting to a '96 306 xr
    Have a look at 205GTIdrivers.com its an English site, there is an article on the Griffiths quick shift. cheers.

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    Same thing,both are about shortening the throw.A bad conversion can damage the synchros,a good one will do no damage at all.

    Still realise,unless you are very agressive with the clutch the shift time isnt the deciding factor.Unless you are half popping the clutch or flat out power shifting a quick shift wont really make your shifts any quicker.Next time you go for a drive look at your gear changes and see if your ever holding off on releasing the clutch because you dont have it in gear.If your hammering it and using a brutal clutch action yes shoft shift might help.I dont think many people actually get to that point short of track days or total disregard for their gearbox/clutch.Only exception would be aftermarket button clutches (i.e. basically no travel,in or out).Even double clutching downshifts its the clutch action thats the deciding factor usually,even if you straight switching to neutral/blipping the throttle and only clutching the neutral>lower gear change theres not really a difference..

    Still short shift does make for nicer and more positive gearchanges,think the 180 factory "short shift" is just a rip of of the griffiths kit,if thats available for your car probably what you want.

    Double clutching upshifts is pointless,it should be no smoother than rev matching with a single clutch action,the higher cogs should already be spinning at the correct speeds.Its only when increasing the revs(downshifting) a double declutch should be of any use,as debatable as that is on modern cars with synchro gearboxes.
    Last edited by Mandible; 28th March 2005 at 01:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible
    Same thing,both are about shortening the throw.A bad conversion can damage the synchros,a good one will do no damage at all.

    Still realise,unless you are very agressive with the clutch the shift time isnt the deciding factor.Unless you are half popping the clutch or flat out power shifting a quick shift wont really make your shifts any quicker.Next time you go for a drive look at your gear changes and see if your ever holding off on releasing the clutch because you dont have it in gear.If your hammering it and using a brutal clutch action yes shoft shift might help.I dont think many people actually get to that point short of track days or total disregard for their gearbox/clutch.Only exception would be aftermarket button clutches (i.e. basically no travel,in or out).Even double clutching downshifts its the clutch action thats the deciding factor usually,even if you straight switching to neutral/blipping the throttle and only clutching the neutral>lower gear change theres not really a difference..

    Still short shift does make for nicer and more positive gearchanges,think the 180 factory "short shift" is just a rip of of the griffiths kit,if thats available for your car probably what you want.

    Double clutching upshifts is pointless,it should be no smoother than rev matching with a single clutch action,the higher cogs should already be spinning at the correct speeds.Its only when increasing the revs(downshifting) a double declutch should be of any use,as debatable as that is on modern cars with synchro gearboxes.

    With a non synchro gear box you DO need to double declutch on an upshift.
    Luckily not too many of these around nowadays!
    Graham

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Short shrift..

    Quote Originally Posted by nate
    You still "Granny shifting instead of double clutching like you should"
    Nate,
    Even the current batch of hairy assed trucky wouldn't know how to double de-clutch. For years now most or all truck boxes have been syncro, lucky buggers!
    My experience with double de-clutching ended in 1970 after "pulling the pin" on 10 years of driving Leylands. I havent used that method since. Oh, hang on, an A model Ford and a Fiat 500 slipped in there somewhere.

    It's the old "having a dog and barking yourself",thing again.

  22. #22
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    With a non synchro gear box you DO need to double declutch on an upshift.
    Luckily not too many of these around nowadays!
    But without revving the engine in the midst of it all, I hope...

    I laugh when I hear people rip off up the street, rev it out in first, go for second and give it a rev in the middle of the gearchange.

    They'll soon learn what it's like to drive without synchros!

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    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    Ray,

    They are also generally the mindless idiots doing 100km/h+ in a 60km/h zone and leaving black stripes up what was a peaceful suburban street.

    Matt.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxie
    Have a look at 205GTIdrivers.com its an English site, there is an article on the Griffiths quick shift. cheers.
    I was talking about the quick clutch
    205 GTi (S2 ) rolled

    '96 306XR "Sex" Black

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! Cubits's Avatar
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    I've never yearned for a quicker shift in a 205... it's possibly the fastest manual i've ever stirred. I have yearned to be able to select reverse without pressing the stick into the passenger seat though...

    There are sites on the net telling you how much you have to cut out of the bellcrank (and reweld) to achieve the desired throws, but i can't bring myself to cutting and welding said parts.
    1987 205 GTI - Graphite Grey - 206k km's
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