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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Icon7 New Member

    Hi all,

    I'm a new member that doesn't actually own a Pug yet!! I'm a Volvo man thats interested in V6's. As you may know, in the Volvo circle, the V6 is considered a boat anchor!!! Well, after being overtaken by a low 504 with a V6 badge on it and a loud exhaust, I'm thinking you guys might know what your doing with them. Anyway, can anyone tell me where to start with learning about what to do to get more out of these things. I know I can get over 200HP out of a Volvo 4 cylinderNA engine, and over 300 out of a Volvo Turbo 4. But I want to be different. I wouldn't mind a V6 504. Were they factory fitted with V6's? Again, excuse my ignorance, but I don't know where to start.

    Cheers,

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    Dennis

  2. #2
    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volv164
    Hi all,

    I'm a new member that doesn't actually own a Pug yet!! I'm a Volvo man thats interested in V6's. As you may know, in the Volvo circle, the V6 is considered a boat anchor!!! Well, after being overtaken by a low 504 with a V6 badge on it and a loud exhaust, I'm thinking you guys might know what your doing with them. Anyway, can anyone tell me where to start with learning about what to do to get more out of these things. I know I can get over 200HP out of a Volvo 4 cylinderNA engine, and over 300 out of a Volvo Turbo 4. But I want to be different. I wouldn't mind a V6 504. Were they factory fitted with V6's? Again, excuse my ignorance, but I don't know where to start.

    Cheers,

    Dennis
    the only V6 oficialy sold in australia pre the 605, was the 604 although you will be hard pressed / i don't think you can find one of these in a manual.

    There have been a few V6 conversions done, but the process of finding the parts is tedious to say the least, as sourcing things like RHD bellhousings for a peugeot box is hard, and then making the box fit in the narow tunnel of the 504 is harder again, you would be best off using an automatic, as it gives you more room to work with in the tunnel. The other option is using a japanese box with an adapter plater, something like a supra gearbox which is much smaller / easier to find.

    As for the V6 being a boat anchor, volvo drivers in general sugest this because of the iregular service intervals sugested by volvo, as compared to the renault and peugeot variants 'rambo will explain this better i'm sure.

    As for what you could get out of a PRV V6, i wouldn't sugest that its out of the question that you could the 200 to 300 bhp that you're sugesting you can get with the volvo donks, there were infact alpines (Renaults) with 400+ hp versions of the PRV.

    do a search of the forum, and i think you'll find at least a few examples of nicely warmed V6's.


    there is also this on drive (allthough very! expensive). It does however look like a very late model in above average condition

    http://www.drive.com.au/used_cars/pe...&pp=3&d=0&nv=1

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! MR604's Avatar
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    You come to the right place to learn about them, as there's some very knowledgable people on this forum.


    As for getting a manual g/box for one to fit in a pug, getting a date with Jen Hawkins would probably be easier.

    The only pugs that they were sold in out here were the 604's and they were 2664 versions, with twin carbies and points dizzys.

    The Ovlovs had efi and electronic ignition and were 2850 in size.

    Our local experts can fill you in on the can's and cannots of what you can do with these motors, as I'm still a newbie with them.

    BTW welcome to the forum.

    A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention in human history, with the possible exception of handguns and tequila. - Mitch Radcliffe

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    the only V6 oficialy sold in australia pre the 605, was the 604 although you will be hard pressed / i don't think you can find one of these in a manual.

    There have been a few V6 conversions done, but the process of finding the parts is tedious to say the least, as sourcing things like RHD bellhousings for a peugeot box is hard, and then making the box fit in the narow tunnel of the 504 is harder again, you would be best off using an automatic, as it gives you more room to work with in the tunnel. The other option is using a japanese box with an adapter plater, something like a supra gearbox which is much smaller / easier to find.

    As for the V6 being a boat anchor, volvo drivers in general sugest this because of the iregular service intervals sugested by volvo, as compared to the renault and peugeot variants 'rambo will explain this better i'm sure.

    As for what you could get out of a PRV V6, i wouldn't sugest that its out of the question that you could the 200 to 300 bhp that you're sugesting you can get with the volvo donks, there were infact alpines (Renaults) with 400+ hp versions of the PRV.

    do a search of the forum, and i think you'll find at least a few examples of nicely warmed V6's.


    there is also this on drive (allthough very! expensive). It does however look like a very late model in above average condition

    http://www.drive.com.au/used_cars/pe...&pp=3&d=0&nv=1
    Who said it was hard to fit a BA10 in a 504 tunnel?
    The auto tunnel takes away your leg room, I would never convert another auto for this reason.
    Graham

  5. #5
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    firstly wreck a volvo for the engine but ensure it isn't corroded in the block

    save the 604 in other words as they are getting rare

    i have 1/2 a volvo engine in a 604 here and it is going quite well

    91mm pistons/liners

    volvo cams

    604 block

    cleaned up 604 heads.

    To go manual will be the hard part but there are ways around it

    the boys in Vic have been putting in the hard yards with these engines and have come back with great results

    i prefer the odd fire engines over the even fires but you can go either way

    i am running a single dual throat weber ATM

    I will be working on the injection system very shortly and modifying a twin plenum volvo setup

    the volvo versions corroded out due to poor service and electrolosis due to running brass drain cocks where as the 604 had steel plugs in the coolant drains

    made it a little harder to drain the coolant but they didn't corrode to the extent the volvo units did
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2 pugs
    You come to the right place to learn about them, as there's some very knowledgable people on this forum.


    As for getting a manual g/box for one to fit in a pug, getting a date with Jen Hawkins would probably be easier.

    The only pugs that they were sold in out here were the 604's and they were 2664 versions, with twin carbies and points dizzys.

    The Ovlovs had efi and electronic ignition and were 2850 in size.

    Our local experts can fill you in on the can's and cannots of what you can do with these motors, as I'm still a newbie with them.

    BTW welcome to the forum.


    The 2850 Volvo engines were only in the 760s and late 260s.
    All of the 260s and the early 760s had K Jetronic and odd fire crankshaft
    The late 760s had even fire and L Jetronic with fullly electronic ignition.
    I am involved with one of these in a 505 rally car, it s a 280F the unleaded, detuned version. If you want power, it would be best to turbo, even with Autronic engine management ours has luke warm performance. Large amounts of work in uncharted territory would be needed to improve its performance.
    "Odd Fire" who appears occasionally on this forum is the only one who has got a normally aspirated engine to perform well (with genuine Talbot Tagaro Webers) and still not as good as the more simply modified turboed examples.
    Turboed these engines are very impressive, going back to 1980 and Bob Watson's turboed 504 V6 rally car. There is a guy in the US who has turboed a 3.0 even fire with massive horsepower, forgotten his name now, try Google!
    Sourcing manual transmissions is a problem, I got lucky and bought a rusted out manual 604 for $1000. It has a 4 speed box, much more reliable than the 5 speeders.
    By the way I have sorted out the clutch problems, use a Land Rover/Jaguar driven plate with a Falcon Pressure plate. The splines are quite close, better than the Holden unit that some are using and flywheel just needs some simple redrilling and surfacing flat right across the face.

    There are heaps of odd fire engines at Pick a Part for around $150 each.

    Graham

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
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    Check out this thread if you haven't already. Turbo is definately the way to go if you want serious HP cheaply. I have a stock V6 with a single turbo (VL Commodore) and it makes 150kw at wheels. If that is not enough 2 X wrx turboes will give about 180kw at wheels all on a near stock motor.

    PRV V6 Dyno Shootout Charts and Facts

    Jarrod

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    There is a guy in the US who has turboed a 3.0 even fire with massive horsepower, forgotten his name now

    I think his name is John Lane.

    Jarrod

  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Thanks for the advice.

    I know a bit about the Volvo engines. I've had a couple and my father is a Volvo parts specialist. The reason most of the Volvo V6's corroded is that Volvo buyers were used to there Volvo 4 cylinder engines, where you could just put water and oil in when it ran out and drive them untill they broke, which is usually about 500000kmss!!! The V6 was a bit too advanced for them! Can you buy Peugeot V6 engine mounts for the 504, or do you have to make them. Again, finding a V6 is not that hard for me. I know of a factory manual Volvo 264 that I'm trying to get my hands on. I just want to know how to get reasonable power out of one, the sort of power a worked 2.8 V6 should make!!!

    Dennis

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volv164
    Thanks for the advice.

    I know a bit about the Volvo engines. I've had a couple and my father is a Volvo parts specialist. The reason most of the Volvo V6's corroded is that Volvo buyers were used to there Volvo 4 cylinder engines, where you could just put water and oil in when it ran out and drive them untill they broke, which is usually about 500000kmss!!! The V6 was a bit too advanced for them! Can you buy Peugeot V6 engine mounts for the 504, or do you have to make them. Again, finding a V6 is not that hard for me. I know of a factory manual Volvo 264 that I'm trying to get my hands on. I just want to know how to get reasonable power out of one, the sort of power a worked 2.8 V6 should make!!!

    Dennis
    There is a 604 at pick a part (Kilsyth) at the moment, the engine mounts off this will fit a 504. You need to use a 1976 or later cross member though.
    Graham

  11. #11
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    engine mounts are around so it's not a big problem

    as far as i know there were 50 manual V6 Volvos sold in this country one of which Ray and i wrecked only a few months ago

    they do turn up in the paper every so often so they are around

    I have seen Volvos that have been serviced to the book still corrode
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  12. #12
    Tadpole
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    I know of lots of cars that have been serviced by the book. Just because the dealer has stamped it, doesn't mean that they have done what is required. "Your car is due for oil, coolant and brakefluid change at this service sir." "Just change the oil thanks. I don't have money to spend." Happens all the time. Service book still gets stamped though!

    So, The 604 Mounts only bolt into '76 on 504's. Are tranny tunnels the same size for manuals and autos?

    Dennis

  13. #13
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    cross members from 76 onwards

    also from this time or slightly before the tunnels were different between manual and auto cars

    the autos's bieng the larger tunnel which makes it easier to fit boxes in due to the added room but as Graham has stated they do take up more room internally in the car

    i'd prefer to use and auto body if i were to do another one

    as for service work remembering 604's were treated the same way but they still didn't corrode to the extent that the volvo versions did
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  14. #14
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    The bigger tunnel is there whenever there is a Borg Warner automatic trans... not with the ZF. I think that's from about 1972.

  15. #15
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volv164
    Well, after being overtaken by a low 504 with a V6 badge on it and a loud exhaust, I'm thinking you guys might know what your doing with them.
    What colour was this 504? I know of a couple of V6s, just wondering who it might have been...
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  16. #16
    Tadpole
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    It was a yellow one with 505 or 604 alloys. Not Gti wheels, the other alloys. Low and loud, saw it on Spencer street in the morning. I like the look of a low 504. Kind of gracefully about to kick your arse!

    dennis

  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    hmmmmmmm

    sounds like someone known to a few members here
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default New Member & dejavu.

    Volv 164,
    Forgive me and others for going over familiar ground, you may not have been born when these points were aired some time back.

    Orestes, you touched on the "poor" V6 service intervals? Volvo services were down for 10,000k. A coolant protection, glycol % test was also done at these intervals.
    As with all cars, specified service intervals go out the window when the cars are on their 2nd or 3rd owners! "Champagne tastes with beer budgets".

    Pugrambo, you also bring up the poor servicing on the Volvo V6. You mention that the 604's were equally ill treated but they didn't corrode away.
    I don't know if you have documented fact re these comments apart from your practical experience. Unfortunately for my argument I have no evidence either. I can only say,again, that the number of Volvo V6's sold compared with the 604 would be, using a ball park figure, about 100 to 1.
    This would surely load the corrosion story against the Volvo?
    As for the "brass" drain cocks, The Volvo drain cock consisted of a steel threaded fitting into the block, into this screwed a brass valve which when it was closed made no greater contact area with the coolant than the top of a biro ! I think we might need an expert in galvanic? reaction to settle this.
    PS. Your mention of the equally poor servicing of the 604. Did they suffer with the dreaded cam shaft and rocker deterioration as did the Volvo?
    This occured regardless of service neglect! I hope you aren't going to tell me God was on the 604's side with this one too.

    Volv 164's dad might like to contribute to all this?

  19. #19
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    the 604 version can suffer the same fate in regards to the cam and rockers on the left hand bank

    the fix for this besides regular oil changes and good oil is to slightly open up the oil gallery in the left hand head and this was a common modification whenever a 604 engine was pulled down for an overhaul

    the last 2849 i pulled down had a corroded block but the cams and rocker gear were all ok

    the last 3 2664 engines i have pulled down have all had good rocker gear and shafts and no corrosion

    if i go further back in time i have pulled more 2664 and 2849 engines down to find corrosion in the 2849's but not in the 2664's but i have seen a few 2849 cams worn and rockers broken

    i have known a couple of 2664's to have broken rockers in them

    footnote

    2664 = 604
    2849 = volvo
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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