how strong is mi16?
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  1. #1
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    Default how strong is mi16?

    can anybody give me their opinion on how strong a rebuild mi16 engine is as far as a turbo application goes?? would it be fine with the 9.0:1 CR piston/liner kit and a thicker gasket??

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    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    With today's programmable ecus and petrol you would be fine running standard compression with a turbo.

    With big boost on an Mi16 motor though i think the wet liners would have a bit of trouble sealing/being reliable. Could quite happily do a low blow setup though.



    Dave


  3. #3
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    thats pretty much what i wanted to hear!! i was thinking of running about 10psi, possibly a tad more, im thinking now that the 9.0:1 CR piston kit and thick gasket, i will be very safe.

    on this note can anyone recommend an ECU that is friendly with the stock sensors???
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jester_fu
    XU9 and XU10 blocks can't be all bad, they where still using them in the 206WRC, and now the 307WRC. They also still use them in the 406 touring cars. I think you will find that block/bottom end combination are a force to be reckoned with, and you should be fine.
    XU10s are all iron blocks so you would be less likely to have problems with them. Off the top of my head, the rally cars are all built up from an Xu7 block; remember we don't have the access to the same equipment they use (or their budget) so don't expect the same reliability.

    Though as i said before 5-10 psi should be fine with standard compression with a haltech/autronic/motec handling it. We only have 9.5:1 cr 16Valves here - a lot of turbo cars come out with more compression than that these days.



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    hey bj, how far have you gone with the conversion or haven't you started yet. I have bought a haltec E6K and a Garrett T25 from a guy at work and will be starting mine as soon as the bank wants to give me some money and I fix the bloody sunroof : I am looking at running the same boost somewhere in the vicinity of 9-12lb. I have been talking to Peter T and he thinks the same with the compression leaving it as standard. I am going to get a thicker head gasket though to take it down a tad just to be safe.
    Excuse my mechanical ignorance but can someone on the forum explain to me what wet liner are and why they would be a weekness with this application.
    Keep me posted on your progress

  6. #6
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    at the moment im just in the process of gathering my reasearch and parts, it was my new years resolution to get the Mi16 rebuilt and turboed!!

    i think im going to try and get hold of a t28, simply because im going for the 9.0:1 kit and should be able to push it harder without problems.

    any idea what intercooler you are using 405T16?? and where you will place it?

    cheers
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  7. #7
    Zen
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    Hmmm... all this talk is givin' me a hankering to turbo the S16.

    Rich

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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 405T16
    Excuse my mechanical ignorance but can someone on the forum explain to me what wet liner are and why they would be a weekness with this application.

    Sorry for the pic size but its the best explanation. This is my Xu9 block. As you can see the pistons go up and down inside a liner (the sleeve). This liner must seal at the top (onto the head)and bottom of the engine. Where as in an iron block car such as the Xu10 the pistons go up and down in the solid block - no sealing issues there - just the head onto the block.



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    Thanks Dave, so what you are saying is that the Mi16 has no liners the pistons just sit in the bore?

    Bj I am unsure of that as yet. With an air to air front mount the aircon with probably have to go. Living in Brisbane with a black car with no aircon is tourture so I'll have to have a chat with an engineer. Alot of people I ask so you will have to take the aircon out to fit the turbo. I'm sure you can get around this. The 405 T16 had aircon and could fit the turbo in as well. It did have an air/water intercooler which I have heard you can still buy from Peugeot. The price is in the order of 1200-1500euro.
    The T25 I picked up from a guy at work he took of his sr20 I bought it for $250 it is in good nick but I am no 100% sure I will use it. It is the non bearing model too.

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    Bj there is a great site that has a 205 Gti which has had a turbo conversion done on it. It has a good picture of a front mount intercooler on the car which may give you some idea's about where to put yours. The site is in French though but Google has a translate button. Go into the area called Acheivements and you will see a thread for the 205 Gti T16

    This is the website www.perso.wanadoo.fr/jso/

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    This series 1 mi16 is an alloy block which uses the liners, series 2 is iron (is an Xu10) and has none.



    Dave


  12. #12
    farmerdave
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    Quote Originally Posted by 405T16
    Thanks Dave, so what you are saying is that the Mi16 has no liners the pistons just sit in the bore?

    Bj I am unsure of that as yet. With an air to air front mount the aircon with probably have to go. Living in Brisbane with a black car with no aircon is tourture so I'll have to have a chat with an engineer. Alot of people I ask so you will have to take the aircon out to fit the turbo. I'm sure you can get around this. The 405 T16 had aircon and could fit the turbo in as well. It did have an air/water intercooler which I have heard you can still buy from Peugeot. The price is in the order of 1200-1500euro.
    The T25 I picked up from a guy at work he took of his sr20 I bought it for $250 it is in good nick but I am no 100% sure I will use it. It is the non bearing model too.

    In regards to the intercooler, have a look at a 405 STDT if you get a chance- I recall that the intercooler is on top of the engine and receives air from in front of the radiator through a passage between the bonnet and bonnet liner.
    I saw one at the wrecker's recently, thought it was a neat way to fit it all in.

    Farmerdave

  13. #13
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the help everyone. Ill track down a SRDT and have a look at the intercooler position at some stage, but i think a front mount for a petrol turbo application is the go, unless there is some serious venting in the bonnet. speaking of which, there will be exhausting vents in the bonnet anyway to get rid of the expected high under-bonnet temps.

    cheers
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    keep looking at the air/water intercoolers...

    you should be able to find an aftermarket company who would make em a lot cheaper then what you were qutoed for the original Turbo one.. and they are just as efective and in some cases more so.. and can be mounted any silly place at all

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  15. #15
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    the water/air 'cooler is an option, but ive heard that they arent as potentially efficient as an air/air one. for urban warfare they are probable better, but i wont be doing much city driving hopefully.

    also all the mucking round with water hoses, etc, an air/air sounds like a much simpler option. im thinking now a top mount might be an option, something that can flow in a vent on the bonnet and back out another.

    any other ideas?
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    i think youl have more problems if you mount it atop your block...

    Engines tend to be hot and you want your air to be cool... why put it on top of the engine.. ??

    Surly ther has to be a better place

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  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Tiop's Avatar
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    Hey i once seen a good idea i think it was a drift car probally skyline but anyways the idea was a tilted radiator and a intercooler mounted above it so that the air comming in when throught both was the best comprimise i have seen. it was a shape like

    you see ?
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  18. #18
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    yes ive seen some of the japanese drift and GT cars with this setup, but i think its probably one of the most space un-friendly setups, in my situation, taking up minimal space is paramount.

    i took the grille off today and surveyed the room in front of the radiator, and i think i will be able to fit an intercooler in after taking out the air-con condenser.

    cheers
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

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