505 auto gearbox problems.
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts arunine's Avatar
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    Default 505 auto gearbox problems.

    My daughter says her Peugeot 505 auto gearbox is slipping out of gear and sometimes won't go into 3rd. It is also holding 1st (from cold) for about 1km before changing up, then it's OK once it has warmed up. Fluid level is OK.
    Any suggestions?

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  2. #2
    Member LynCliff's Avatar
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    My daughters 505 was doing this and I believe its the governor mechanism sticking. Try a can of Wynns Auto treatment first, this may take a few days to work but it did fix her car. A better fix would be to drop the pan and change the filter (strainer) as well but you still need the Wynns to free up the mechanism,
    LynCliff

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Agree with the suggestions re servicing the transmission and / or adding the Wynns treatment.

    Also suggest checking that the transmission governor inner cable has not stuck somewhere between the idle adjustment and the full kickdown position. Unlikely, but will cause similar symptoms if sticking intermittently.

    Cheers,
    Kim.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    My auto would hold onto first until it warmed up after the tranny had all its seals replaced. It did this for a few days but eventually cured itself.

    I noticed it also does it for a day or two after I do a fluid change but again just goes away.

    Has your transmission recently had the fluid replaced? It might just cure itself if this is the case.

    Richard
    - Richard

    Now: 405 SRI D70 '93
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    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
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    - manual conversion

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts arunine's Avatar
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    Default 505 auto gearbox problems

    Thank you for your helpful replies. My daughter took the car into an auto repairer and was quoted $1800 to repair. She was told the main reason it is not working properly is because it was never serviced.
    I have told her to get the gearbox serviced with fluid replaced.
    The vehicle only cost her $1500.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arunine
    Thank you for your helpful replies. My daughter took the car into an auto repairer and was quoted $1800 to repair. She was told the main reason it is not working properly is because it was never serviced.
    I have told her to get the gearbox serviced with fluid replaced.
    The vehicle only cost her $1500.
    You should be able to get a service kit, (filter and sump gasket) for the car from most auto suppliers. Just make sure you tell them what box is in the car. I know supa-cheap in Qld have them for the later 4sp autos for about $40. Also I'd add a bottle of Lucas auto treatment to the gearbox as well, even before you do anything. I've found Lucas to be good products that do work. (I don't work for them either... )

    It amazes me what some places quote for repairs on european cars, even older ones. Pug 505 had 2 types of auto's a ZF or a Borg-warner. They are both only hydraulic autos, not fancy electronic ones.
    I would check here for names of french car workshops in Perth as I have found in the past at least these guys are honest and won't usually recommend work be done if it is going to be exorbadent and over the value of the car.
    Are you mechanically minded Arunine??
    Chris
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  7. #7
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i would change the filter in the box and put new oil in it

    in fact if time and space permitted i would pull the box out and drain the torque converter as well

    when putting new oil in an old box i wouldn't go past nulon additive

    i have used this in autos before and it has done wonders, it has even replenished a dying reverse in a GM box which are renowned for loosing reverse

    the filter is easy to replace but make a note of where each bolt comes from that hold the filter in place as they are all different in the ZF boxes
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts arunine's Avatar
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    Default 505 auto gearbox problems

    Thanks again! No i'm not mechanically minded Hong Kong Puggy, but the car is 350km away in Perth, but I know my daughter could do the job, as she will not baulk at anything.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arunine
    Thanks again! No i'm not mechanically minded Hong Kong Puggy, but the car is 350km away in Perth, but I know my daughter could do the job, as she will not baulk at anything.
    She will make a great wife for someone.

    She is best off to attack the problem with the filter/fluid change. At least it will be an in-expensive fix if it works.
    Good luck.
    Chris
    2016 Renault Sport Clio Cup EDC 200



    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts arunine's Avatar
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    Default 505 auto gearbox problems

    Thank you all! We dropped the pan and changed the filter/strainer. the magnets in the pan were built up to around 2cm of very fine metal sludge like toothpaste and just one shard of metal. changed the fluid and put in a bottle of gunk (can't remember the brand), pushed it off the ramps, started the motor engaged drive then reverse and let it idle to mix components and took it for a run.
    It changed out of first straight away with no slipping, everything OK.

    This morning it did the usual thing of staying in first until warmed, then was OK for the rest of the day.
    We'll see how it goes from here. Regards, all you moneysavers.
    We will change the fluid again in a few weeks.

  11. #11
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arunine
    Thank you all! We dropped the pan and changed the filter/strainer. the magnets in the pan were built up to around 2cm of very fine metal sludge like toothpaste and just one shard of metal. changed the fluid and put in a bottle of gunk (can't remember the brand), pushed it off the ramps, started the motor engaged drive then reverse and let it idle to mix components and took it for a run.
    It changed out of first straight away with no slipping, everything OK.

    This morning it did the usual thing of staying in first until warmed, then was OK for the rest of the day.
    We'll see how it goes from here. Regards, all you moneysavers.
    We will change the fluid again in a few weeks.

    by that time most of the old oil will be mixed through that was left over in the torque converter so a change will be a good idea

    when you change the oil again place some more nulon in and then it should be ok for the next 18mths to 2 years before the next oil and filter change

    it is important to change the filters in these boxes and it is something that a lot of people overlook and are then set with a big bill to get them repaired when they go belly up

    most auto 505's in wrecking yards are in there with blown autos because of this
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Congrat's Arunine,
    Preventitive maintainence of this type, is like 'Rambo says, a good thing. Keep it up, with regular serviceing(plugs, tune, oil and filters) and your daughter can look forward to years of trouble free motoring. Pugs are almost bullet proof and if treated respectfully are a faithful servant.
    2016 Renault Sport Clio Cup EDC 200



    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default 505 auto gearbox..

    Quote Originally Posted by arunine
    Thank you all! We dropped the pan and changed the filter/strainer. the magnets in the pan were built up to around 2cm of very fine metal sludge like toothpaste and just one shard of metal. changed the fluid and put in a bottle of gunk (can't remember the brand), pushed it off the ramps, started the motor engaged drive then reverse and let it idle to mix components and took it for a run.
    It changed out of first straight away with no slipping, everything OK.

    This morning it did the usual thing of staying in first until warmed, then was OK for the rest of the day.
    We'll see how it goes from here. Regards, all you moneysavers.
    We will change the fluid again in a few weeks.
    Arunine,
    I believe the ZF 4HP 22 trans for very cold countries had a thermister in the valve body. It's purpose being to prevent the trans going into a high gear when cold. The ZF in the 505 may have retained this feature, so you may not have a problem.
    My thoughts on things found on auto trans magnets. If you can't recognise anything among the rubbish, don't worry about it!

    The first 740 Volvo's used the ZF, they were a power sapping auto, put right in later models with an Aisin Warner auto. A bomb proof box.
    Last edited by Wildebeest; 17th January 2005 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Alter number.

  14. #14
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i can't emphasize enough how important it is to service these boxes

    in fact everything needs regular servicing but ZF boxes can cost a lot more to rebuild than a BW box when they go bung

    do to the cost of rebuilding them bieng quite often more than what is worth spending on the car they end up dumped in wrecking yards whilst there will be nothing wrong with the rest of the car

    just imagine a car worth around $1500-2000 then having to face a bill in the high 100's or even over $1000 to repair an auto due to it never bieng serviced properly

    to most people it's not worth the money to throw into the box

    most repairers will charge around $300+ just to remove and replace the box let alone the cost in rebuilding the box when a simple oil and filter change will only ever set you back for less than $50 every 18months to 2yrs
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  15. #15
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i forgot to add

    the reason i posted above is it was only a few months ago i found a 505STI in a wrecking yard that was perfect

    not a thing wrong with it bar a dead ZF auto

    it had a perfect body/interior, very clean engine bay and was a well looked after car

    i would have pulled the car back out of there except the wrecker wanted too much for it but it was too good a car to be scrapped

    i did post about it when i found it but i don't think anyone was after anything from it or after the car but it would have been a perfect car for someone to pick up and throw another auto in or even convert it to manual

    i'd say it would either be crushed now or has been moved around the yard with a forklift and damaged and all for what

    a simple service of the auto every so often

    BTW the car had under 200k on it
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Pugrambo,
    That is a sad tale you tell.
    I know BMW use the ZF trans in some 80's model 5 & 7 series. I spoke to a wrecker here who had 2 for sale and said I could have them for $600 each. How different the mounting is from Pug I haven't looked into. It's good to keep in mind though.
    I'm going to pencil in a fluid/filter change on the 4hp22 for the next few weeks. I am sure I saw the kit listed on EAI's site.
    Googled 4hp22 a while back, even found a Yank company that could supply high stall converters for the box.
    2016 Renault Sport Clio Cup EDC 200



    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts arunine's Avatar
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    Icon7 505 auto gearbox problems

    There isn't really any need to change the filter/strainer, as it is a fine wire mesh, it can be washed thoroughly with petrol or something and replaced.
    The sealing rubber was in excellent condition, but the gasket for the filter/strainer was missing. Will keep you all posted. Regards!

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arunine
    There isn't really any need to change the filter/strainer, as it is a fine wire mesh, it can be washed thoroughly with petrol or something and replaced.
    The sealing rubber was in excellent condition, but the gasket for the filter/strainer was missing. Will keep you all posted. Regards!
    I'll keep that in mind. I'll just order a sump gasket for ours then.
    Does it look as though you'll be able to cut your own gasket for the filter/strainer?? Someone may know if ones available.
    Last 505 we had was done professionally.I hope the filetr kit charged was actually used. I always had the car serviced professionally when we first owned it as then at least if it stopped my wife couldn't give me greif for it.
    Happened a couple of times actually, once all the way down in Dubbo after a master cylinder rebuild. The seals let go, apparently, as they claim, the wrong grease was used, and destroyed the seals. Lot of good that was all the wya down there. Was good for me to know she'd be tearing strps off someone else... (for a change)
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    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts arunine's Avatar
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    Default 505 auto gearbox problems

    Puggy, There is possibly no need to order a strainer gasket as the strainer is a flush fit. No it would not be possible to cut a gasket, as it is only about 5mm wide with about 8 holes on the inside perimeter.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Kewl,
    That'd explain why there no gasket. Tis going to be easy, I'll run the 505 up on the ramps this weekend and drop fluid sump and clean the filter, new gasket and new fluid. Should be like driving a new car after that. New t/chain and tensioner last weekend complete with 3 new belts.
    Thanks to you too. Glad we could help you and your daughter also.
    Chris.
    2016 Renault Sport Clio Cup EDC 200



    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Hope it goes easier than last weekend.

    Cheers ed ge

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    Hope it goes easier than last weekend.

    Cheers ed ge
    You and me both, I am sure. Thanks for the wishes.
    Should be straigth forward. {Not like the 9000(Saab) The dammed Sweeds think the 9000 box is bullet-proof. They don't have a drain plug before about the 1989 model Have to tip it up like a toy car to empty it }
    505 is running OK, have to do a little tinkering with the timing to get it real happy but it's running.
    Last edited by HONG KONG PUGGY; 19th January 2005 at 07:03 PM.
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    Previous

    2001 Rx-4 Privilege
    R17TL, 1973
    R20TS x 3
    R18 GTS wagon x 2
    R10





    "When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts arunine's Avatar
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    Default 505 auto gearbox problems

    Well, we changed the gearbox fluid again yesterday, it was quite dirty from what was left in the torque convertor mixing with the new fluid. It still holds in first from cold and hesitates when when changing up, but we will see how it goes. I didn't replace the additive this time, I feel some of these aftermarket products are a waste of money.

    I am in the process of purchasing a 1988 turbo GTD 5 speed 505 for my son. It was advertised in today's WA Sunday times.
    I am basically a Citroenaphile, having a CX25PALLASie, a 1971 DS21 5 speed and a 1983 2CV6. My wife drives a Renault Clio; only because the Citroen people weren't really interested in selling her a C3. I was not really impressed, but we did own a R12 for around ten years. That's why she went for a Regie.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default 505 auto gearbox

    Arunine,
    Putting on my "50 Cent Fixers" hat. Could we be looking at a sticky kick down cable here?
    Disconnect the cable from the carb/throttle body. Leave overnight, in the morning drive off using the gear lever. Going from first work upwards through the gears changing at the speeds you would consider normal.
    If there are no delays etc as experienced before. Cable?

  25. #25
    Tadpole
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    Default fluid change

    Unfortunately my gearbox on the 505 pug is still not working properly after 2 tranny fluid changes.

    Can anyone tell me where in WA i can get hold of the tools needed to change my spark plugs please? I don't like what mechanics call services nowdays and why pay someone to do an easy job on my car.

    Whats this about me making someone a good wife?? Not too sure about that one, have to fine someone that will put up with me, my strange family and all the foreign cars yet

    Also the 505 diesel pug my brother got has now broken down with gearbox selector problems.
    Last edited by arunines girl; 1st March 2005 at 04:06 AM. Reason: addit

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