Parasitic losses- Crank scrapers?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! winnie's Avatar
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    Default Parasitic losses- Crank scrapers?

    I am looking for any feedback (measured, seat of the pants, anything) on the performance improvement (if any) after fitting:

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    a) crank scraper perpendicular to crank - relatively common
    b) crank scraper tangential to crank - only just come across this one myself looks like a fair bit of work, may as well go the whole hog and go dry sump
    c) the good old dry sump.

    Any engine doesn't really matter so long as you state what it was but i do have a pref. for 4cyl 16V engines.

    Thank you.
    If all you have is a hammer, treat the world like a nail.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by winnie
    I am looking for any feedback (measured, seat of the pants, anything) on the performance improvement (if any) after fitting:

    a) crank scraper perpendicular to crank - relatively common
    b) crank scraper tangential to crank - only just come across this one myself looks like a fair bit of work, may as well go the whole hog and go dry sump
    c) the good old dry sump.

    Any engine doesn't really matter so long as you state what it was but i do have a pref. for 4cyl 16V engines.

    Thank you.
    Just do a Google search and there are numerous suppliers and other sites which deal with the technology.

    A crank scraper is just a modified sump baffle. Its usefulness in anything other than a dedicated full-on, screaming RPM, race machine is questionable.
    The only benefit is if you are always on the throttle or the brakes, to lessen oil starvation of the pick-up, this can be remedied by welding in a few plates in the sump pan to stop the sloshing ford & aft.

    For more bang for the buck, consider, porting, headers, carburation/fuel management programming or (here's the rub) just buy a car that was designed and built to go-fast, in the first place.

    If you have the time, $$$ and patients to do this kind of work on your motor so be it, but consider if the $$$ is better spent on better things other than crank scraper installation. Think reliability, handling or shiny trinkets.

    Ask yourself,” why am I doing this?”
    If the answer is:
    A)- to gain better performance from a under achieving motor.
    B)- so as I can tell my mates I have a crank scraper in my (insert make and model), eg Datsun 120Y
    C)- to have that feeling some get from inserting a hand into a pocket that has a hole in it.

    Start again……

    You would be better off giving the money to CARE AUSTRALIA or the Salvos. At least then you know that the money is being well spent.


    Sorry, I just had to say it.

    PS, Ray, Phill, others, your thoughts
    Last edited by Gamma; 23rd December 2004 at 02:46 PM.
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  3. #3
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Well, I was thinking that if it's possible for the 'rambo to notice the difference in power going up Victoria Pass with the fan hooked up, surely this would be a tremendous power drag!

    For my money, I'd go with baffling that took advantage of the direction of rotation to collect the oil that's flying around in there all the time. Dry sump gives a lot of issues like leaks from hoses and pipes, drive problems etc.

    But I really think you should check the car out by driviing it at a slightly low oil level, giving it a real good caning like that and see if the pressure drops. Have a passenger keeping their eye out for the light or gauge fluctuations, you should be too busy to notice.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Well, I was thinking that if it's possible for the 'rambo to notice the difference in power going up Victoria Pass with the fan hooked up, surely this would be a tremendous power drag!
    The voice of reason.



    You might find that 1 or 2 Horse power will be gained if the stereo was turned down and Charles Asnivor (sic), played.
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Now my 2 bobs worth.

    A well designed dry sump is always going to save hp and cure starvation problems. It would inlcude a crank scaper to keep the oil off the crank and force it into the pan. A dry sump on a 600hp V8 is worth something like 40hp.

    If you can't afford that level, a wet sump with crank scaper, windage tray and baffles is the cheaper alternative. The scraper, whether perpendicular or tanget, is a key component in a high RPM racing engine. The more it revs, the more the oil will stick to the crank. As for quantifying hp gains, I wouldn't have a clue.

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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Heres a site worth having a look at.

    http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...06mm_slippery/

    After my little spit yesterday I took it upon myself to do a bit more research.
    On a 400Hp V8 a dry sump will give you 3-5% more Hp.
    On a DOHC 4 you will get 5-7%, (Claimed by a Honda Kit Manufacturer).

    As for crank scrapers there is a consensus of 2-5 % increase in Hp. This depends on who you believe (DIY Hoons, or sellers of the bits). All of which are on serious go faster racers.

    The enemy of speed is weight.
    Throw out the Passenger seat.
    Expunge the back seat, loose change and pens.
    Clean out the Glove box and empty the ashtray.

    That will be worth 2%.

    If you can't get a 10-15% increase in Hp from a porting and headers, (not extractors), Sue the shonk who did the work.

    This does not include the obvious-
    Bore the sucker out until it is paper thin. Increased capacity = more Hp.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
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    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
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  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Another method is to only ever use Victoria Pass going East to West...

  8. #8
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Another method is to only ever use Victoria Pass going East to West...

    but that's no fun

    i like catching people in my mirrors in commodes and fowlcans understeering into corners while the 306 is in cruise mode going up there
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  9. #9
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    ...and I like to see their eyes stick out on stalks when they look in their mirrors as I close on them as rapidly as one would when they've just discovered their brake fluid has gone missing!

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Gamma]

    If you can't get a 10-15% increase in Hp from a porting and headers, (not extractors), Sue the shonk who did the work.

    What is the difference between an extracter and a header????????
    Jo

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=jo proffi]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma

    If you can't get a 10-15% increase in Hp from a porting and headers, (not extractors), Sue the shonk who did the work.

    What is the difference between an extracter and a header????????
    Jo
    There is some interchange in the use of the terms extractor and header.
    Extractor--Aust
    Header--USA
    There is a definition for each.
    It goes like this:

    Extractor-Pipe of uniform diameter, (mandrel bent).

    Header-Tuned extractor where the pipe length and diameter is optimised to improve performance.

    Further, a header is either cast or insulated, to maintain the exhaust gasses as a plasma for a distance from the head, (this is supposed to improve the laminar flow of the gasses).

    There are a number of net sites which try to explain this, (some use the reverse definition). I have referenced a 1920s steam locomotive maintenance manual.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! winnie's Avatar
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    Thank you for the replies.
    It was not a mod i was about to rush out and perform myself, but i was interested to hear of other peoples practical experiences.
    I will share some other info I have gained on the topic for those interested.
    The common and relatively simple perpendicular scraper can just as easily COST you power on high rpm engines (basically the same mechanism of viscous shear taken advantage of in torque converts etc obviously not of the same magnitude.)

    As for fitting things so I can tell my mates or advertise the fact with a sticker, you have the wrong bloke.
    If all you have is a hammer, treat the world like a nail.

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