Dyno Results for My 205gti/Mi16
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! neil's Avatar
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    Default Dyno Results for My 205gti/Mi16

    Went to the Dyno this morning to get a before and after reading as I will finally be putting Peter T's cam shaft and sump on this weekend.

    Interesting results from the Dyno.

    119hp @ 133KPH @6500rpm at the bags.

    Top torque @ 4750rpm of 420nm

    The interesting point is that it has a big flat spot from 3250rpm to 4250rpm. The torque drops from 350nm to 160nm during the flat spot?

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    The engine is standard apart from one of Owens inlet cam wheels.

    Any suggestions of what the flat spot could be caused by?


    Neil
    205GTI/Mi16
    Tony Sprint Kart

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
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    Neil

    The HP max figure sounds possible but the 420nm torque figure is a little unlikely. How did you arrive at this figure? Dyno's normally can only measure tractive newtons at the wheels and not crankshaft torque although this can be estimated. I would have expected a MI to have around 3000 tractive Newtons at the wheels.
    OddfireV6
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OddFireV6
    Neil

    The HP max figure sounds possible but the 420nm torque figure is a little unlikely. How did you arrive at this figure? Dyno's normally can only measure tractive newtons at the wheels and not crankshaft torque although this can be estimated. I would have expected a MI to have around 3000 tractive Newtons at the wheels.
    420Nm would be the RAW torque number from the dyno, after the flywheel torque is multiplied by gear ratio, axle ratio and rolling radius. That's a typical reading for a 3rd gear run. A 2nd gear run would produce even more torque!

    420Nm in 3rd isn't too shaby. Owen's 205Mi16, when a similar spec., with 10.4:1 and a slightly bigger cam made 423Nm @ 5900,and went on to make 135hp @ 7100. His 3rd gear was 1.36:1 and 4.43:1 diff. What was yours?

    Jason20's Mi16 made 114hp at the wheels, on the same dyno as Owen's, after the cam change. It's unwise to compare dynos though.


    Where did you install the inlet cam?

    Do you have a shorthened inlet manifold?

    What did the AFR do during the flat spot?
    Last edited by PeterT; 21st December 2004 at 04:10 PM.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! neil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    420Nm would be the RAW torque number from the dyno, after the flywheel torque is multiplied by gear ratio, axle ratio and rolling radius. That's a typical reading for a 3rd gear run. A 2nd gear run would produce even more torque!

    420Nm in 3rd isn't too shaby. Owen's 205Mi16, when a similar spec., with 10.4:1 and a slightly bigger cam made 423Nm @ 5900,and went on to make 135hp @ 7100. His 3rd gear was 1.36:1 and 4.43:1 diff. What was yours?

    Jason20's Mi16 made 114hp at the wheels, on the same dyno as Owen's, after the cam change. It's unwise to compare dynos though.


    Where did you install the inlet cam?

    Do you have a shorthened inlet manifold?

    What did the AFR do during the flat spot?
    You are correct Peter this was a reading in third gear. I have yet to install the inlet cam. I wanted a starting figure before I installed to see the net effect after the new cam was put in. I do not have a shortened inlet it is the standard length inlet. I only wanted a power/torque reading from the dyno today as I couldn’t leave the car with them.

    Do you think the AFM could the cause of the flat spot?

    Neil
    205GTI/Mi16
    Tony Sprint Kart

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! neil's Avatar
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    By the way

    The car has a standard Mi16 gearbox and dif.

    Peter as you stated you will get different figures from different Dyno's. My reason for getting the figure is to see what happens with the Cam as Cal is keen to see the results and get one for his Mi16.

    Neil
    205GTI/Mi16
    Tony Sprint Kart

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    You didn't say where you'd installed the cam. Getting the inlet timing wrong, ie too retarded, would have that effect. When you install the new cam, install it with the std. #3 pulley first, using a locking pin. Then carefully remove the pulley and install the adj. pulley, taking care not to let the cam slip. This will ensure the cam is installed with a 109 deg. centre line. You can then fiddle from there once on the dyno. You will need to verify your #3 and adj. pulleys are IDENTICAL first. Stack them on top of each other and compare teeth and key locations.

    As an alternative, if you've got a dial indicator and know where TDC is, I can give you figures to verify the lift at TDC.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Have you seen these figures of a freshly rebuilt engine?

    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/tayl...cam_change.htm

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Time for another Sydney dyno day?

    Which dyno do yourself and Owen use Peter?

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! neil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    You didn't say where you'd installed the cam. Getting the inlet timing wrong, ie too retarded, would have that effect. When you install the new cam, install it with the std. #3 pulley first, using a locking pin. Then carefully remove the pulley and install the adj. pulley, taking care not to let the cam slip. This will ensure the cam is installed with a 109 deg. centre line. You can then fiddle from there once on the dyno. You will need to verify your #3 and adj. pulleys are IDENTICAL first. Stack them on top of each other and compare teeth and key locations.

    As an alternative, if you've got a dial indicator and know where TDC is, I can give you figures to verify the lift at TDC.
    Peter I'm now confussed

    The inlet cam I talk of is from memory a non-adjustable exhaust cam wheel from Owen?

    My intention with the new cam shaft is to put the standard #3 cam wheel back on and leave it at that. I thought that I could not put the above cam wheel on again?

    Are you available for a quick phone call to confirm what I'm doing? If so just pm your number.

    Thanks

    Neil
    205GTI/Mi16
    Tony Sprint Kart

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    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Peter on a related subject, who do you recommend put this CAM on the engines. I heard Paul V is doing this job know, is this correct? Its on an exchange basis?
    Niel im interested too, so would like to know the results. Although I will probably do the change anyway, as I have seen plenty of good evidence so far.
    Thank you both - Chris
    ... ptui!

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRI'S16
    Peter on a related subject, who do you recommend put this CAM on the engines. I heard Paul V is doing this job know, is this correct? Its on an exchange basis?
    Niel im interested too, so would like to know the results. Although I will probably do the change anyway, as I have seen plenty of good evidence so far.
    Thank you both - Chris
    Paul V, Colliers in Granville, possibly Owen Wuillemin (he usually does special rebuilds)

    The cams are exchange. I don't have any spare 2.0L cams though, so I'd have to do yours.

    We use Hills Motorsport for dyno work.
    Last edited by PeterT; 21st December 2004 at 07:46 PM.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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