504 Oil Leaks
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Thread: 504 Oil Leaks

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Peter J's Avatar
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    Default 504 Oil Leaks

    Hi all,

    My 504 has an oil leak around the crankshaft pulley / timing chain cover area. I am concerned it may be a problem with next rego inspection.

    Is there an oil seal around the crankshaft in the timing chain cover? Or is it just the timing cover gasket that causes problems?

    Is it possible to replace timing cover gasket with engine in the car? I realise that means getting the nut off the pulley. I guess it's tight!!

    Is it possible to replace the sump gasket with engine in the car?

    Are there any other common sources of oil leaks in this area of the engine that I have overlooked? Any comments or advice?

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    Regards

    Peter J.
    PJ

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter J
    Hi all,

    My 504 has an oil leak around the crankshaft pulley / timing chain cover area. I am concerned it may be a problem with next rego inspection.

    Is there an oil seal around the crankshaft in the timing chain cover?
    Its a very simple system at the crakshaft, Peter. Essentially it relies on an oil thrower (a cupped piece of sheet metal) on the crankshaft behind the timing cover, a "grooved" section on the pulley itself, and a comparatively small clearance between the timing cover and the pully. With time the clearance between the pulley and the timing cover increases and you start to get oil leaks (often badly amplified by blocked crankcase "breathers")

    Its quite possible to replace the timing chain cover with a new one with the engine in the car. As long as you make sure that the crankcase breather system is working properly, and the new timing chain cover is properly aligned when you install it this will usually sort out the problem. Sometimes engines with a lot of "blow by" because of bad rings or other defects will still leak because of the internal pressure though.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  3. #3
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    while the timing cover is off you are better off to do the chain and tensioner in there as well

    or check to make sure the tensioner isn't at it's limit

    pull the gauze out of the oil breather/filler and give it a good clean out and there should also be another one in the filler cap itself that needs to pulled out and cleaned

    these accumulate oil gunk over time and of course mayonaise which blocks them up and creates more pressure in the crankcase than is needed

    i hope you have a 35mm socket to get the nut off with

    best way around all this is of course to remove the radiator out of the car so you have a clear shot at everything there

    not a hard job in a 504

    if you were closer you could borrow my socket
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Fellow Frogger! Peter J's Avatar
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    Thanks Rod,

    The crankcase breathing appears to be fine and no blow by. Engine rebuild about three years ago, but it does not appear that the timing cover has ever been replaced. I will try to get hold of one. Only about $40.00 I believe.

    Peter J.
    PJ

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    1st oil leak; both
    2nd sump, don't know

    This motor has an oil slinger/thrower (oil thrower bowl) immediately behind the timing chain cover, a large bell shaped washer that manually excludes oil from the point where the crank passes through the cover, item #10 on most exploded views of crankshaft. This may be missing or installed backwards, should have open face to chain cover. There is no great difficultly in removing timing cover, just time and attention to detail, as always. Get a gasket and have a go, if you've got a manual and you feel capable. A relatively simple/safe half day proceedure. Be sure to clean the surfaces of chain cover and backing plate, judicious use of black gasket goo, refit pulley with half key, torque crank bolt, spread new tab washer or old one if you were careful, open beer.

    gasket more important than cover
    centre housing bush may be worn

    Cheers ed ge

    ps. should read, "test drive, park car, open beer"
    Last edited by edgedweller; 18th December 2004 at 12:47 AM.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default 504 Oil Leaks

    Peter,
    There are no oil seals front or rear on a 504 crankshaft. They utilise a slinger or a scroll ? machined on the shaft that theoretically directs any oil trying to escape back into the engine. Because of its very nature there will always be an oily residue around these areas. Take an illustration of this with you when you go for your RW. You may get a fresh faced unbeliever doing the check.

    Most oil leaks on these engines are caused by clogged engine breather/flame trap gauzes. These are found in the eng. oil filler spout and cap. They can be removed and cleaned, ugh! messy job, buy two new ones.
    Also check the eng. breather system hoses, the large one from the filler to the air filter can go soft and collapse. The small one[vacuum] to the manifold, check for blockage and the same for the restrictor fitting on the inlet manifold

    If your old treasure, the 504 is a VERY high mileage it may be breathing a bit heavy. Not much you can do about this for now. Before you go for your RWC
    give the engine etc a good degrease. One last tip and if you tell anyone I'll have to kill you! Minutes before you present your 504 spray the offending areas with Brake Clean it is less obvious than a final wipe over.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Peter J's Avatar
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    Hi Rambo,

    I don't have a 35 mm socket, or a suitable driver that you could get enough leverage onto for the torque of that nut ...

    Dubbo isn't too far from Parkes. Actually, Rambo I wouldn't mind getting someone such as yourself to have a quizz at the car to check if anything else needs looking at? Next time I visit my Mum ....

    Peter J.
    PJ

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter J
    Hi Rambo,

    I don't have a 35 mm socket, or a suitable driver that you could get enough leverage onto for the torque of that nut ...

    Dubbo isn't too far from Parkes. Actually, Rambo I wouldn't mind getting someone such as yourself to have a quizz at the car to check if anything else needs looking at? Next time I visit my Mum ....

    Peter J.

    not a problem at all

    i have a socket and a lever that will get the nut off without any drama

    having the engine in the car makes things much easier than if an engine is out of the car
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default 504 Oil Leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter J
    Hi Rambo,

    I don't have a 35 mm socket, or a suitable driver that you could get enough leverage onto for the torque of that nut ...

    Dubbo isn't too far from Parkes. Actually, Rambo I wouldn't mind getting someone such as yourself to have a quizz at the car to check if anything else needs looking at? Next time I visit my Mum ....

    Peter J.
    Peter, It's a good thing you haven't got a 35 mm socket because it wont fit.
    The correct size is 36mm.[I think that Rambo bloke is stirring me up again.]
    To hold the pulley while undoing I use 'Vice Grip'' chain grips. Now even Rambo would have these. WHAT ??

    The 504's I've had anything to do with have all been 36mm. My '73 404 1800
    also.
    Anyway I can't see you having to go that far. As before, replace breathers.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Not quite sure If I am following the query properly.

    I recently bought a kit that replaced all the rubber seals in the timing cover.

    Set me back $35.

    shobbz
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    1975 504 GL

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Peter J's Avatar
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    Hi Shobbz,

    Was that a result of oil leaks? and did it do the trick?

    Where did you buy the kit? Mine is 79 GL.

    Peter J.
    PJ

  12. #12
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Peter, It's a good thing you haven't got a 35 mm socket because it wont fit.
    The correct size is 36mm.[I think that Rambo bloke is stirring me up again.]
    To hold the pulley while undoing I use 'Vice Grip'' chain grips. Now even Rambo would have these. WHAT ??

    The 504's I've had anything to do with have all been 36mm. My '73 404 1800
    also.
    Anyway I can't see you having to go that far. As before, replace breathers.

    i have a 35 and a 36

    the 35 fits the V6 crankshaft pulley and the 36 fits the XN pulley and rear axle nuts

    don't ask me why it is so but it is
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  13. #13
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    I have read somewhere that Peugeots sold in Africa were fitted with an alloy timing cover that had a conventional oil seal, Australia wasn't considered dusty enough to require this.
    It's a good idea to use a centering bush to line the cover up with when doing this job.

    Graham Lewis

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default 504 Oil Leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    i have a 35 and a 36

    the 35 fits the V6 crankshaft pulley and the 36 fits the XN pulley and rear axle nuts

    don't ask me why it is so but it is
    Mr Peter J & Mr Pugrambo. [note respec].
    I owe you both an apology. Needing to put this 35/36mm business to bed I took out my venereal gauge and measured the crankshaft nut on my '79 504.
    You were right, 35mm.
    For years I've been using a 36 mm single hex socket both on the V6 and 504.
    Because of the single hex the 36mm would fit the 504, a bit loose but still capable of doing the job.
    In current modern work practice this would be called "multi skilling". Mr Abbot & co would be pleased!

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter J
    Hi Shobbz,

    Was that a result of oil leaks? and did it do the trick?

    Where did you buy the kit? Mine is 79 GL.

    Peter J.
    Mine is a 75GL.

    I had oil leaking from the rocker cover, and from the spark plug tubes. Rocker cover mainly.

    I got the kit from Llewin at Peugeot Spares Brisbane.

    shobbz
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    1975 504 GL

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! Peter J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Mr Peter J & Mr Pugrambo. [note respec].
    I owe you both an apology. Needing to put this 35/36mm business to bed I took out my venereal gauge and measured the crankshaft nut on my '79 504.
    You were right, 35mm.
    For years I've been using a 36 mm single hex socket both on the V6 and 504.
    Because of the single hex the 36mm would fit the 504, a bit loose but still capable of doing the job.
    In current modern work practice this would be called "multi skilling". Mr Abbot & co would be pleased!

    What's a mm between friends?

    Thank you to those who have contributed. I think I will give the breathing system a good clean out, purchase a new timing cover and gaskets and go from there. What do the comments about centering the timing cover mean? And what is a centering bush? I thought the cover bolted on so isn't it self aligning in that way?

    I will be in touch Pugrambo.

    Thanks

    Peter J.
    PJ

  17. #17
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    A centring bush is a sliding fit on the crankshaft and into the timing cover it guarantees that the cover is perfectly concentric around the scroll on the pulley

    Graham Lewis

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter J
    And what is a centering bush? I thought the cover bolted on so isn't it self aligning in that way?
    Peter J.
    Sort of, Peter. But the holes that the numerous bolts and studs go through to hold it on allow for a little bit of variation in location. Peugeot dealers use a purpose built alignment tool to ensure that the cover is perfectly aligned around the pulley, but if you can't borrow one you can pretty much get the same results by:

    1) putting a bit of tape around the section of the pulley assembly that goes through the cover,
    2) locating the cover in position,
    3) mounting the pulley on the crankshaft without tensioning it,
    4) doing up the bolts / studs on the timing chain cover, and
    5) finally removing the pulley so that you can take off the tape and then putting it back on again and torqueing it up.

    (it is much easier to follow if you have the parts in front of you, and much easier to do than it is to explain!)

    Cheers

    Rod
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  19. #19
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    they are not very hard to line up

    Peter - just let me know when you need the socket and an eye over the car and we will go from there

    i'll be tottering with the rebuilt starter motor in the 604 and putting the electronic ignition in the car next week and i will be helping another fellow frogger put a g/box in a 505 in the new year

    so other than that i should be pretty free
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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