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  1. #1
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    Default Aftermarket Air Filters --> Tech details

    Every man & his donkey seem to fit an after market air filter, sure they "breathe" better & do nothing but make noise, but has anyone actually seen tech data on the differences between the particle sizes these aftermarket ones let through?

    I'd love to see stats on the particle sizes let through the OEM ones versus aftermarket, anyone found this data?

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    yep id like to se that also,ive seen alot of cars with them but you dont usually find out the pitfalls unless you either suck it and see or have a resource like this.i think im more worried about hot air being sucked in than anything else.as in my car it ends up either on top of the manifold or distributor on top of the engine.
    its going to take alot to take the oe set up off unless there really is some beifit.-BAZZ

  3. #3
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Can we add that to Grant's to do list?


  4. #4
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I suppose if you were to do certain mods to the engine, then an after market air filter may be some advantage, although a year or so ago, the XJS 7.2T/T rthat my son works on was at a sprint meet at Ipswich Raceway when the guy driving it gave it a suddent bootful on a warm up lap and spluttered to a stop in a pile of smoke that didn't smell all that much like oil.
    It was found that he'd sucked the guts out of one of the pod filters.
    I bought one for a F**d I had once as a standard replacement. It wasn't cheap but was supposedly better and it probably was, but I lost 5 mpg in the process which seeing as it was as expensive as the original wasn't a good investment.
    I know Dave Baker from Puma Racing reckons the same as I do that they are more psychological than practical and I've yet to see anyone prove him wrong as he is a professional in the field.
    Personally, I think it's a case of turning back the hands of time to when you were a kid and clamped a piece of plastic to the rear fork of your pushbike so when it tapped against the spokes it made a noise like an engine when you pedalled, and the harder you pedalled the faster it sounded like it was going; methinks history repeats itself with these filters; increase in noise and no difference in performance, but........it sounds good, and that's all that matters really isn't it?


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    have at agree with Alans..

    I still have my pushbike with the strength of Mal Maninga Fliping away at the spocks which makes me sound very tuff

    but yes.. it seems this sort of discussion goes round and round and round and round.. and the only real benift i can assume is for cleaning purposes and saving the cost of replacement filters i gues..

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  6. #6
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    I think Nate is referring to after market panel filters, rather than pods or different induction systems.

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    It was a panel filter I used on my F**d that shot the fuel consumption to shreds. In that case, it was obviously too fine a material and acted like a big choke.
    The Jag ate the pods.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  8. #8
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    It was a panel filter I used on my F**d that shot the fuel consumption to shreds. In that case, it was obviously too fine a material and acted like a big choke.
    The Jag ate the pods.

    Alan S
    Oh Ok, sorry, my confusion

  9. #9
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    I'm lookin for any data on aftermarket POD or Panel...

    The ONLY thing i'd look at getting is a replacement panel of EXACTLY the same material, but with more surface area... hmmmmm some DIY? lol

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    http://knfilters.com/facts.htm#WORD

    the info as you request

    As for me, I plan to go aftermaket/custom, as it is tooo much of a pain trying to deal with filters for my CX, right now, it litterally has several layers sponges in the old panel, it was like that when i got it, replaced the sponges with new ones, from the fact I drive in a busty enviroment, and the sponges are covered with dust on one side, no more on any of the layers past it, it will do until I get something setup better (thinking these K&N filters myself, and I HAVE seen noticable preformance improvements from them, very noticeble (will get numbers before and after on the CX, as I have access to a dyno, would get info on stock as well if I had or could get a factory filter)

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! casnell's Avatar
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    the fact I drive in a busty enviroment,

    Where's this place,? I'd like to go for a sight-see!
    205gti

  12. #12
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    Are the green cotton panel filters any good?

    Or is the Simota Air Induction kit better?

    (it's on the autoparis website)
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    With carbi motorcycles, we had to re-jet the carbis so the engines didn't run lean, from a higher air ratio.

    I guess increasing the air, will increase the fuel usage automatically by the ECU. I turn, shoving your fuel economy out the door.

    One funny experience I had with my 4X4 is that the cheapy $10 paper filter works better at not only filtering, but also performance and economy compared to K&N, FinerFilters, etc.

    Sometimes I just thend to think that companies have spent quite a substantial amount on R&D to make sure their parts work at their best with minimum cost, maintenance levels, etc. Sometimes its not worth messing with that.

    pips

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    Thats abit rude. The reason i havent posted about the results i got cause i couldn't be bothered trying to defend myself by half the people on here saying that iam wrong and don't know what iam talking about. There is to many people on here with blinkers on.

    Grant.



    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    Can we add that to Grant's to do list?


  15. #15
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxman
    Thats abit rude. The reason i havent posted about the results i got cause i couldn't be bothered trying to defend myself by half the people on here saying that iam wrong and don't know what iam talking about. There is to many people on here with blinkers on.

    Grant.
    But the whole point of your test was to prove us wrong... We all showed genuine interest in your work, but never heard a thing. Oh well. This forum is about Sharing the Knowledge, yet if you want to persist on being right and us being blind and to just accept your word with absolutely no facts, than so be it.

    If you produced your findings and they proved your theories and we still disagreed, then that would be a case of some serious blinkers. But at this stage, a lot was promised and nothing was produced. We all get busy, and this is what I assumed had happened.

    Maybe we can talk about it over a beer one day.
    Last edited by GTI124; 30th December 2004 at 01:03 PM.

  16. #16
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    Who said that i was right........ I know i never did. I never said that you should just accept what i say as gospel. Comments like these are why i havent posted the findings. No matter what the findings were you still would have disputed them.

    As to being busy i have a new position at my work where i just don't have the time anymore.

    I was doing the tests for people to use there own opinon on if they wanted to get an aftermarket airfilter/induction system not to prove you or anybody else wrong. I do these things for my own satifaction not anyones elses. There is far to much of your wrong iam right on this forum. Helping other people seems to take a back seat to people grandstanding.

    Grant.


    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    But the whole point of your test was to prove us wrong... We all showed genuine interest in your work, but never heard a thing. Oh well. This forum is about Sharing the Knowledge, yet if you want to persist on being right and us being blind and to just accept your word with absolutely no facts, than so be it.

    If you produced your findings and they proved your theories and we still disagreed, then that would be a case of some serious blinkers. But at this stage, a lot was promised and nothing was produced. We all get busy, and this is what I assumed had happened.

    Maybe we can talk about it over a beer one day.

  17. #17
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Yeah, fair point Grant. Sorry if I came across as attacking you, that was far from my intent.

  18. #18
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCTalkJCFreak
    http://knfilters.com/facts.htm#WORD

    the info as you request

    As for me, I plan to go aftermaket/custom, as it is tooo much of a pain trying to deal with filters for my CX, right now, it litterally has several layers sponges in the old panel, it was like that when i got it, replaced the sponges with new ones, from the fact I drive in a busty enviroment, and the sponges are covered with dust on one side, no more on any of the layers past it, it will do until I get something setup better (thinking these K&N filters myself, and I HAVE seen noticable preformance improvements from them, very noticeble (will get numbers before and after on the CX, as I have access to a dyno, would get info on stock as well if I had or could get a factory filter)
    I seriously doubt you'll improve on the CX air-cleaner. After all it flows plenty enough for the GTi Turbo's that are sucking enough air to generate about 210hp and over 300nM of torque (stage 1 maichonics conversions).

    It's so simple to, you just wash the foam in petrol, blow clean and re-oil it ... I'm sure you'll generate nice amounts of noise with no real gain if you downgrade to a K&N filter

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  19. #19
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jester_fu
    There's a first time for every thing...

    You been a little slow at work the last couple of days, Linc, or you just bored and reaping vengence on your employer for making you turn up during this time of year??

    Well yeah, it was all meant to be tongue in cheek... everyone gets busy, but I don't think anyone was attacking Grant directly in this post or in the previous post on air boxes flow. We were all waiting and continually asking so we could openly discuss it. I think we made that pretty clear, quite a few times in that thread...

    As for the latter... yeah a bit of both really. I'm sure I could do some work.
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    I have no doubt that most pod filter applications are a waste of money. But I reckon the straight through type on a 205 gti is great. Why not cut 3 or 4 feet out of the induction pathway and why not remove three ( I think) 90 degree bends. Response is stax better without this stuff. But probably just with a modded engine. Don't reckon there will be any use for such filters on a standard engine except for the WANK factor. And this can be a powerful motivator.
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  21. #21
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    OK, guys and gals,....

    Now I m not saying that the aftermarket filters, boxes, induction systems are the be all and end all.....BUT they do have a place...sometimes the mods work sometimes they don t .....it depends on how the work has been executed (in comparison to OEM)....
    Here is an example......Why is it that if the "so called" OEM engeneered inductions are so good and so proven that IF you look at literally every car....From ASTON MARTIN to a Mitsu Lancer....They are all DIFFERENT(even from model to model...what they didn t get it right previously and now its better???).....yes they carry some common genes but considering the various engine displacements and engine placements ONE would think there would be a much more universal formula......BUT there isnt.....Look at the new 206 or Clio...Do you really think the designers designed the airbox first or the SHAPE of the car..... Why is the air induction different on 206 to 205? which one is right????
    So I wouldn t always discount the aftermarket induction as a wank factor.....Surely the wrc teams and many other racing institutions don t operate on this logic....Meaning, some OEM are great because of maybe this experience and some are not so good because of lack offf or other maybe more important restraints ie noise levels
    The 205 Gti (as mentioned by warwick) is a perfect example.......the aftermarket pod straight onto AFM straight onto throtle is WAY much better than 2 meters of piping that ENDS locating the filter box "right" above the exhaust....Now that might be fine for sub zero euro climate ...but down under...yeah right....



    cheers


    dino



    Last edited by dino; 31st December 2004 at 01:55 AM.

  22. #22
    Tadpole
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    206 GTi came from a K&N panel filter with a induction pipe on the OE box to the Simota!
    All I can say is I'm very happy with it. Cannot complain for the price.




    Quote Originally Posted by MR206
    Are the green cotton panel filters any good?

    Or is the Simota Air Induction kit better?

    (it's on the autoparis website)

  23. #23
    BiX
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    Well this is an interesting thread. and there are some points to remember, its not all about getting the most air into the engine (if it was we could just run with no filter)

    1- The filter is designed to clean the air, and as such this must be the priority
    2- some "pod filters" i have seen are more restrictive than stock setups.
    3- in most cases inductions systems are designed to regulate noise, and this is an issue.
    4- intake systems are also "tuned" (eg look at alot of the newer cars with variable length intakes?) and this must be taken into account.
    5- most factory setups feed "cool" air to the intake, alot of bolt on pods just suck air form the engine bay
    6-the filter must be made for the intake and envrio conditions, eg dusty aussie roads compared to cleaner euro roads may play a part.

    but in all cases the std systems was designed to compromise between the above issues, while if you go after market you may improve on some while making other worse, eg get more noise and dirtier air, but more air.

  24. #24
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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  25. #25
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    Default Pod Vs. OEM

    If anyone reads Zoom, you would notice that just about every 'Street Tuner' article (often written by Martin Donnon who is, as far as I'm concerned, a ruling authority when it comes to modifying) includes swapping to a Pod filter in nearly all 'Stage one' buildups. Dyno results for this mod alone are not often provided, but the general consensus with Zoom editorial and technical staff is that they produce positive results. It must be taken into consideration that these are nearly all turbocharged applications though, a power/torque gain only achieved when a restriction is present. The way I interpret this is that forced induction engines benefit noticably, while atmo engines produce almost random results. I remember reading an article in which Northshore Rallysport gained 3fwkw in a 206GTi simply by changing to a Green panel filter. A cheap and effectice jump in power, without the associated noise of a Pod (which can and will cost you a canary if HWY patrol find it). When I was getting the 505 turbocharged I was told that the pod filter I'm using is what my mechanic used to fit to Swift GTi motors, and even the good ol' G13B created enough vacuum to collapse them. I'd run a panel if I could...

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