505T - Serpentine belt conversion...
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  1. #1
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    Default 505T - Serpentine belt conversion...

    Hi guys,

    This is an odd question - but did any of the newer 505 cars in other markets ever have a serpentine belt system on the 2.2L engines? (I'm assuming they'd fit the Turbo N9TE motor...)

    I had a crazy idea of updating my car with newer ancillary components to keep the car nice and up to date for future serviceability. If I could find pulley's that bolt on I'd be set...

    Thanks!

    Rabin

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  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Isn't the turbo engine an iron block unit?

    We never got that engine here at all... although I think it might be related to the engine in the Chrysler 80... sold here as the 4-cyl Centura.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default 505 t Serpentine Belt?

    My research years ago re the origins of the 9TE engine. As you rightly say it was the former Chrysler 180 [Simca] engine. Chosen by Peugeot for the strength of the cast iron block being more suited to turbocharging. I believe the PSA parts bin got a right going over during the 205 Peugeot and Citroen super rally cars period [later banned]. The blocks were also chosen because of the above qualities.
    Us sad former Simca owners will cling to any vestige of Simca's last hurrah.

  4. #4
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    'We Simca owners" includes me, Wildebeast...

    Of course, they pale alongside Pugs when it comes to ruggedness... but I had Arondes in the old days.

    So how much would someone get out of a Centura that would fit a turbo 505?

    Obviously one would have to find one that didn't have the more popular 245cid Chrysler Hemi in it...

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default 505T belt conversion

    "Tres tres tragique"

    Gordon Miller told me once that the early 90A Arondes outsold the 203 in France. They did offer a more post war look where the 203 looked like a carry over pre-war design.
    Their appeal in Australia was mainly that the market competition was as the Brits put it."Full of grey porridge motorcars".
    Like the 203/403's the Simca had a good competition history on a Club level.

    I have looked all over for a Centura 4 cyl workshop manual so I can see what the internals were like. Externally the engine looked very European, ugly black with Ducellier/SEV electrics and I think a double choke Weber.
    I've no idea of the bell housing compatibility,certainly not something you could bolt up to the Pug before the pub opens on Sunday! Though reading through the various threads I'm sure this wouldn't baulk some of the lads.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    "Tres tres tragique"


    Like the 203/403's the Simca had a good competition history on a Club level.

    :
    And a good competition history on the 'street' too.
    There were many warm Simcas cruising around in the 60s. The fastest one in Melbourne's east was a 2 door Aronde that ended up with a Holden grey motor with triple SUs etc. Very strong car too as it went off the edge of the Kew Boulevard quite a few times and was always back cruising the very next weekend.
    The Vedette was a great machine also, in the ford Zepher(?) mould - never see them now either! (Is this the fate of the 604?)

    The memories of Simcas are fading away - very sad. I am told that even in Adelaide where most of our cars were assembled there are none on display in any collection or museum (hope I am wrong here!)
    So many projects - so little time.

  7. #7
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    Default So that's a "no" then... :)

    Hi guys,

    Yep - it's an iron block 2.2L engine but I thought it was related to the NA 2.2L that you guys got - I guess not.

    I'm thinking that the serpentine belt idea is going to be a much bigger project - maybe for when I start rebuilding my spare motor I'll look at updating to serpentine belt system...

    Later...

    Rabin

  8. #8
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 604 tragic
    And a good competition history on the 'street' too.
    There were many warm Simcas cruising around in the 60s. The fastest one in Melbourne's east was a 2 door Aronde that ended up with a Holden grey motor with triple SUs etc. !)
    I know a bloke in Sydney who had an Aronde which he put a 179 Holden motor into. This was in the late 1960s. He said it went well and surprisingly handled quite well also. He has owned and modifed alot of other cars from BMWS to Jags to Datsuns. He currently has a Toyota Sprinter with a Nissan SR20 turbo motor and gearbox in it, together with Magna brakes and Falcon watt's linkage. It's a nice car indeed.

    Dave
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  9. #9
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bean
    Hi guys,

    Yep - it's an iron block 2.2L engine but I thought it was related to the NA 2.2L that you guys got - I guess not.
    The NA 2.2 OHC "Douvrin" engine (2165cc) is an all alloy "undersquare" motor with a timing belt. It was made in the same Douvrin factory as the PRV V6 (and has similar head and rocker gear).

    The "oversquare" turbo 2.2 OHC engine (2155cc) is a stroked version of the 2 litre Simca engine which was used in the Chrysler/Simca model variously known as the "Chrysler Centura", "Simca 180" and "Simca 2 litre". The 2.2 was also used in the Simca 180's replacement, the Talbot Tagora.

    The Citroen BX 4TC 4x4 turbo rally cars also used the Simca 2.2 litre, but slightly bored out. The Matra Murena turbo also used this engine.

    From a performance perspective, the Simca 2.2 OHC has a better bottom end than the Douvrin 2.2 OHC, whereas the Douvrin 2.2 seems to have a better head.

    For a turbo car, a good bottom end takes preference, especially if you're wanting to homologate for more highly modified competition.

    It's interesting to note that the Douvrin engine was also available with a nice 12V head in 2 litre (shorter stroke) oversquare form in the Renault 21. This is the sweetest version of the Douvrin 4 inline alloy OHC 4 cylinder engine.

    Dave
    Last edited by davemcbean; 24th November 2004 at 06:33 PM.
    NZ Fleet
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    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    All of this and nobody has mentioned the Monthlery!

    I was a Simca owner too... but I never got into their V8s...

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default 505 T Serpentine Belt

    604 tragic
    Dave McBean
    Ray Bell

    It seems we have swamped Bean's post with our self indulgent Simca rambling.
    Could a new thread be opened in Froggy Forum on the subject? Who wants to start?
    604 tragic, there are still a few Vedettes about, not as popular in their day as the 90A Aronde or P60. They became an embarrassment when Chrysler took over Simca because of the French Ford V8 engine.
    Dave McBean, thanks for your precise info on the Chrysler Simca engine and its variants
    Ray Bell, strange you should mention the Montlhery. [ I must find out how to put the ' over the e].
    I had one of these in the early '60's. It had the Flash Special engine plus a few differences in body trim etc. This P60 Montlhery had the very French rubber bumper over riders,full width wheel trims and very attractive side trim on the body. A floor gearchange completed the picture.
    The engines were slightly modified, the inlet ports were "throated" but retained the original valve sizes. The inlet manifold differed in that it had a less restrictive sweep to it.[I believe the Gordini Dauphine, R8 etc were like this]. The carb was a Solex 32 with alterations to the jetting.
    To be honest I don't think the performance differed much from the 90A Aronde I also owned. Maybe the previous owner had done a swap before he sold it. It had a competition history having been run in a 6 hour race at Caversham.
    If you are interested The Simca Car Club of Australia have a website.
    Http://members.fortunecity.com/simcawa

  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I don't think bean will worry about our rambling, because it will all be news to him!

    I was reminded of the Monthlery just today (not that I have forgotten David Scanlan's black racing one with silver side flash...) when this thread brought to light this picture, which seems to have a Monthlery in it:



    I think they had a few more horsepower than a regular Aronde, more than enough to show up when well driven cars were pitted against each other.

  13. #13
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    Default I don't mind at all!

    I love french car talk - so I read your posts then google the models you speak of to see what they look like.

    Thanks for the info on the 2.2L differences to Dave - much appreciated.

    Rabin

  14. #14
    Member alan_505's Avatar
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    The motor in the Chrysler Centuta has N7 stamped on it and only has 5 bolts for the flywheel and no oil outlet for the turbo where as the N9T has 7 bolts for the flywheel and outlet for the oil to the turbo.

    Alan

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