Mi16 Rebuild?
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  1. #1
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    Default Mi16 Rebuild?

    G'day,

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    Just wondering if anyone can give me a rundown on the general costs of a rebuild for an Mi16, also what along the way to do for improved performance, etc.

    Is anybody attempting a rebuild at the moment?

    Cheers

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Poo-Go's Avatar
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    Funny you should post this, I might have to do a rebuild soon, and I'd be interested in some of the answers as well.
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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I'm rebuilding a couple at the moment. You've asked a very open ended question. Until you've done a compression test it's difficult to tell. Here's a scenario however. If it's done more than 200 000 Km and hasn't been looked after you're be up for the following:

    piston/liner kit $1500
    head recond. $500
    gaskets $250
    head bolts $90
    hoses $100
    bearings $150

    these are approx. only and you'll need to add labour. Head recond. could be more or less.

    I rebuilt an engine earlier in the year that had done 150 000. It had been well looked after, enabling me to re-use the pistons, rings and liners.

    I can highly recommend one of my Stage I inlet cams in your rebuild however. They cost $250 exchange and give approx. 15% increase in power on a fresh engine.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    sorry, i should have stated my engine km's..... 407,000!!!!

    so based on that im assuming it will need everything done, even though it has been filled with mobil 1 every 5000 k's and had 95% highway km's on it. the oil usage is still minimal, but starting to lack the get up 'n' go.

    as far as performance goes, im very interested in trying a forced induction route, not turbo, but supercharged, such as the blower on a toyota 4AGZE, i occasionally run a lotus 7 replica with a 4AGZE, and the torque is amazing (s/c on as opposed to off, its on a switch). i was thinking an increase in low down power is really what a 405 is looking for. apart from the obvious issues of fuel supply and placement of the supercharger under the bonnet, what are other likely issues?

    also, PeterT, would your modified cam work with this set-up?

    cheers

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bj_dove
    sorry, i should have stated my engine km's..... 407,000!!!!

    ah, just run in.......

    Yes it will be stuffed. A good life though! I'd just run the std. cams with forced induction. They have minimal overlap and wide lobe centres which suits better.

    You could probably get away with just a thicker head gasket and use the 9.7:1 CR piston/liner kit.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    well standard cams it is then!

    another question.... would the bosch management be happy with a blower on it?

    the reason i ask is an aftermarket management on the lotus 7 copes equally well with supercharger off and supercharger on, with no changes to any parameters.

    just wondering if larger capacity fuel delivery (pump, injectors, etc) would be enough?

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    Default Some Mi16 head dimensions???

    Hi,

    Abit of topic here.. but wth..

    Since you guys have some engines apart, a little help would be appreciated..

    I've been thinking of doing a 16v head transplant on my old 304, XR5 engine...I'm searching around for a 16v head gasket to see if this is feasible, but while at I'm at it, I wonder if you could satisfy my initial curiosity, and tell me a couple of dimension of the Mi16 head (or gasket)..This'll at least either fire me up some more, or completely take the wind out of my idea...

    1. piston center-to-center dimension
    2. head bolt c-t-c dim
    3. overall head length
    4. overall head width

    If these are reasonably close, I'll look further for relative dim's (head bolt center to piston center, water jcakets etc..)

    While it might be a long-shot, I feel it might be close as the XU series engine was right after the XR5, and some of the chassis parts look the same as the 304/305 parts...

    anyway, would really appreciate it..

    regards,
    nikos

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    I would've thought fitting an XU9J4 head to an XR5 motor would be fairly difficult, if at all possible?

    Surely just fitting the entire XU9J4 to the 304 would be easier?

    Bear in mind I'm not actually baseing this on any specific knowledge.

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    Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by bj_dove
    im very interested in trying a forced induction route, not turbo, but supercharged, such as the blower on a toyota 4AGZE
    I am very interested to see how this works out, if you give it a go. The best spot for the blower would be where the A/C compressor is. Plumbing from there would not be easy though.

    Cal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal
    The best spot for the blower would be where the A/C compressor is. Plumbing from there would not be easy though.
    I was thinking utilising the area to the left of the runners and above the alternator, possibly some serious mounting to the chassis required, but would probably make plumbing easier, probably a buldge in the bonnet would be needed also.

    anyone got any other ideas as far as placement goes?
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

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    You can't mount it to the chassis, as it has to move with the engine due to torque reaction (because it's belt driven).


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bj_dove
    .....the reason i ask is an aftermarket management on the lotus 7 copes equally well with supercharger off and supercharger on.....
    I'm sure it does!

    What engine is in the Seven (is it a real Seven), and I just know you'll say it flies with the pump attached...

    Maybe that's what I should do with my Jolus... what do you think?

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    I'm working on a similar project. Useing a Paxton type blower which will sit where the LHM reservoir is located on a BX16V. Remove the AC pump and relocate a smaller bodied alternator to where the AC pump used to be.

    On a BX16V the area where the AC pump sits is too small for any of the common or affordable superchargers unless the radiator is replaced or modified which I think would probably amount to quite an expense. Could be an opertunaty to make a one off system with a deeper radiator on top and an air to air intercooler directly below it, same problem with expense unfortunatly.

    Chris

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    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    I'm sure it does!

    What engine is in the Seven (is it a real Seven), and I just know you'll say it flies with the pump attached...

    Maybe that's what I should do with my Jolus... what do you think?
    what i was getting at my saying it goes well with the s/c off or on, was that it doesent fuel up, and is equally drivable, obviously the power differs greatly

    btw, no its not a real seven, a seven based 'Locost', its a toyota 4AGZE, 1.6L
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

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    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Dunham

    On a BX16V the area where the AC pump sits is too small for any of the common or affordable superchargers unless the radiator is replaced or modified which I think would probably amount to quite an expense. Could be an opertunaty to make a one off system with a deeper radiator on top and an air to air intercooler directly below it, same problem with expense unfortunatly.

    Chris
    couldnt simply a smaller radiator width wise be offset? i have always felt that the mi16 rads are oversized, with my temps dropping way below 70 on highways and suffering from heatsoak in slow traffic
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  16. #16
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    Have no experience with the Mi16 in anthing other than the BX16V which runs at a fairly constant mid 80's and into 90+ when stuck in trafic for extended periods.
    My impression was that they ran rather hot and that a deeper core would not hurt.

    I've not checked this one out but if the AC system were removed all together with condenser and pump the stock radiator may be able to be moved forward?

    Chris.

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    Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by bj_dove
    btw, no its not a real seven, a seven based 'Locost', its a toyota 4AGZE, 1.6L
    I had a 4AGZE in my Sprinter, running about 11psi. Certainly went well.

    Cal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT

    piston/liner kit $1500
    my local french workshop (French Car Care), told me that a piston/liner kit would be just over $800. any reason for the large difference??
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Possibley P/L from cheaper manufacturer. Peugeot P/L kits were available from three or four different manufacturers: Mahle being the best/most popular and expensive brand for euro cars, down to other manufacturers who don't put their name on the side of the box for half the price. Like most other things there is a variation in price and quality, investigate your preference.

    edgedweller

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    1000+ Posts Poo-Go's Avatar
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    Peter may well be referring to the price of a UK-spec kit also, which I believe costs about that much. Different pistons for higher compression.
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    How come these piston and sleeve kits are being talked of at prices about double those for 504s?

    I mean, they are still only four pistons and four sleeves... and a few gaskets and rings and so on...

    The pistons aren't forged or anything.

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bj_dove
    [b].....no its not a real seven, a seven based 'Locost', its a toyota 4AGZE, 1.6L[/i]
    So for my Jolus, do you think a supercharger would make the 203 engine any more suitable?

    Of course, I won't be able to change gears as often... but who cares, with the wind in the face etc?

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    How come these piston and sleeve kits are being talked of at prices about double those for 504s?

    I mean, they are still only four pistons and four sleeves... and a few gaskets and rings and so on...

    The pistons aren't forged or anything.

    supply and demand

    why do you think a piston liner kit for a PRV is $490 and it has 6 pots ?
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  24. #24
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Or, more likely... "This is a performance car, we can fleece them..."

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    Member danemi16's Avatar
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    Icon6

    piston/liner kit $1500
    head recond. $500
    gaskets $250
    head bolts $90
    hoses $100
    bearings $150

    I can highly recommend one of my Stage I inlet cams in your rebuild however. They cost $250 exchange and give approx. 15% increase in power on a fresh engine.[/QUOTE]

    My Mi is comming up to 310,000kms. It's only just started to use a bit of oil(1-1.5ltrs per 10,000kms) so I'm starting to consider rebuilding it.
    Couple of questions:
    1) That piston/liner kit is that euro spec? and what sort of performance difference is there between aus delivery and euro spec?
    2)When you've stripped the engine down that far is there any other things(considering the kms) that you would consider replacing?
    3)What about gear box rebuilding, any idea on parts and costs associated with that?

    Dane
    1993 Series 1 405 Mi16

    Already have:
    Lots of servicing
    Devil exhaust
    Soon to have:
    206GTI 16's
    Lowered
    Slotted front rotors
    New tires
    and some more servicing!

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