Quaife LSD Successfully Fitted to GTI 180
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Icon10 Quaife LSD Successfully Fitted to GTI 180

    Good news for the keen 180 drivers out there! Although designed for the old BE 3 gearbox of the 205, 306 etc., the peugeot diff design has still not changed and the Quaife unit will fit into the BE 4 of the 206s.

    All I can say is that is just simply mind blowing the difference it has made. In normal driving you do notice it is there, as the steering wheel now has a light tendency to want to pull back straight. However, once you enter a corner you can feel the car really push itself into it and the feeling at any speed is very noticeable. Understeer has practically been eliminated unless you simply drive too fast into the entry. Now, rather than waiting until the exit of the corner to start accelerating I can now put my foot down at any time and it will literally pull me in the direction the wheels are pointing. I have only tested it out on wet roads so far, but if this is how it performs I can not wait for the dry. Even when taking off from the lights, where on a really wet day where wheel spin is so easy to achieve, the wheels just simply stay planted. One thing I was never completely sure about was how the ESP / TC would react to the diff. Im happy to say they complement each other very effectively when turned on, although the only time it has had to kick in was when I tried to see how much power I could feed it from a standing start.

    It certainly is taking a bit of getting used to. Where you once accepted understeer tendencies you can now point and shoot!


    Rough breakdown of costs were:

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    $1,200 Diff

    $425 about 5hrs labour

    $15 left drive shaft seal

    $40 right drive shaft seal (yeah makes me curious too)

    $150 for two drive shaft bearings (!!!)

    --------

    $1,800


    The verdict well worth it. You can spend heaps on exhausts, chips, suspension, light wheels, etc. but none will make such a profound difference as this.

    Next on the cards is some more heat-resistant brakes such as those black diamonds. That wont be for a while now. I will be over the expense factor after I need new tyres in the upcoming months and insurance / rego etc. due!

    - Leigh

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Nice to hear. I cannot wait for the day my Quaife gets off the loungeroom floor and into my car. I'm assuming you got Taylors of Medindie to fit the unit. And based upon this assumption is another in that they did only order 2 sets of side carrier bearings and i am the one to miss out

    It'll be good to compare with the last runs at Mallala

    Anyway, have fun and it looks like i will be waiting for another 3-7 weeks

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by XsaraVTS
    And based upon this assumption is another in that they did only order 2 sets of side carrier bearings and i am the one to miss out

    Anyway, have fun and it looks like i will be waiting for another 3-7 weeks
    Quentin have they told you that or are you assuming that? I hope they werent stupid enough to order only 2 sets. What the hell were they thinking?

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts gti138's Avatar
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    Leigh,

    Congrats - I'll have to come for a drive with you soon to see/feel the difference. Maybe I'll be convinced to lash out and spend the money that im sure my girlfriend thinks is for a house deposit
    Murray : And there are flames coming from the back of Prost's car as he enters the swimming pool!
    James Hunt: Well that should put them out then!


    Mallala: 1:30.79





  5. #5
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Awesome Leigh. I should come across to Adelaide again

    I looooove the feeling of an LSD. It was so nice in the 6, Ican imagine how much extra grin you'd get in a 180!

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    G'Day Leigh,

    Glad to hear that you also find it so impressive.

    IMHO, I think they round out our cars really well, & should have been fitted as std. anyway on the performance variants.


    Cheers

    Jeff
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

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    Previous Frenchies-
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Leigh, awesome to hear that!

    Well I've got my car booked in for the 23rd this month..can't wait!

    Quentin, they clearly knew that 3 cars were having the diff fitted. If they've ordered only 2 sets of bearings, it's just NOT acceptable. But yeah ring them up first to confirm. Also, unless you're having the diff fitted before the 23rd, I'll need to swing past your place to grab the diff oil off you.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I'll ring them on Monday and find out if they have everything they need for the Xsara. Once that is organised i'll try and book my car in for a similar time to that of Jude.

    With the ridiculous weather we had Saturday morning i also wonder why such "high performance" vehicles didn't come with one standard. Although, it would probably be some shit 2 plate clutch style and not 80% Auto Biasing.

    I cant wait to see how it helps the much bigger Xsara

  9. #9
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    I thought i'd post what is going on...

    ...i was upset, thinking i had missed out - so i rang Greg and was pleasantly told that the Diff carrier bearings were all in stock, but that he'd like to replace the crown wheel nuts on the Xsara (perhaps he knows something i dont - or perhaps he doesn't know the car is only 13 000 k's old).

    But regardless of that - the car is booked in for the 2nd & 3rd of December. I am seriously thinking of going out to Mallala for the 27th Nov open day and then again on the 4th December open day for some comparisons. Thus a question is posed : Do the Quaife units need to be 'run in' ?

    JAStanis: I'll need to give you the NeoSyn Gear Oil before your installation. Perhaps swap it for Michaels DVDs either this weekend or next ???

    I cannot wait.

    Plus i still have a problem with the damn rear brakes. I might post a new thread under technical...

    -Q.

  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    Default niceeeeee

    niceeeeee if you want a turbo kit from me i will take your lsd for my car as a pay method

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Q, yep I'lll catch up with you this weekend or worst-case during the week, as I'll be away all next weekend and definitely need the oil by 23rd Tue.

    Yep I've finished most of Mike's dvds but still some to go through. I'll try to watch all of them early tomorrow or something so we won't have to split up his collection.

    I'm looking forward to getting the diff fitted too. In some ways though, I feel that the lsd will make our cars feel slightly underpowered in comparison to now due to having all that extra traction.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts gti138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    Q, yep I'lll catch up with you this weekend or worst-case during the week, as I'll be away all next weekend and definitely need the oil by 23rd Tue.

    Yep I've finished most of Mike's dvds but still some to go through. I'll try to watch all of them early tomorrow or something so we won't have to split up his collection.

    I'm looking forward to getting the diff fitted too. In some ways though, I feel that the lsd will make our cars feel slightly underpowered in comparison to now due to having all that extra traction.

    I'll have to catch up with you all when I get back from Perth and probably Classic Adelaide. I'd love to go for a ride in the cars to help me justify a Quaife one of these days.

    How are the DVD's Jude?
    Murray : And there are flames coming from the back of Prost's car as he enters the swimming pool!
    James Hunt: Well that should put them out then!


    Mallala: 1:30.79





  13. #13
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    completely off topic now...

    Mike can you try and find out from some of the Australian representatives of PSA-Peugeot-Citroen at the WRC event as to where and how we can source Group N / Group A (A7?) car parts. There is just SFA posted on the internet. Especially for the Xsara


    back on topic

    Jude is Sunday afternoon alright with you to exchange goodies ? I can't wait to see how much difference that oil makes aswell as the difference of the diff. Im getting sick of spinning the inside wheel on the way to work... stupid car - it'll either bog down or bag up - there is no median

  14. #14
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    Hi, I'm a new member & don't actually have a Pug, but I'm very interested in this topic.

    How does that diff handle with corner entry understeer (common across all FWD cars)? Did it slightly exaggerate it? Is the diff a 1 way, 1.5 way or 2 way (I'm guessing a 1 way for FWD).

  15. #15
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Welcome to

    It's an ATB LSD: http://www.quaife.co.uk/product/atb.htm

    The LSD that I had on the 6 didn't accentuate understeer, it had a bit more than without one as you'd have some weight shifting under increased load as you accelerated out of corners. But it was barely noticeable, to be honest, but then again the GTi6 didn't understeer that much either.

    What are you thinking about fitting one into?

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candellan
    Hi, I'm a new member & don't actually have a Pug, but I'm very interested in this topic.

    How does that diff handle with corner entry understeer (common across all FWD cars)? Did it slightly exaggerate it? Is the diff a 1 way, 1.5 way or 2 way (I'm guessing a 1 way for FWD).
    Locked diffs definitely increase understeer on initial turn-in since the inside wheel is trying to spin at the same rate as the outside wheel and therefore makes the car go straight. Clutch type LSDs that aren't setup correctly can also do this as they can limit slip too early. As GTI124 said though, ATB diffs work a different way (and though I haven't driven a car with one yet) they are supposed to act as a normal differential right up until enough power is applied that causes wheel slip.

    Mike, have almost finished watching all of them. Currently watching Murray's F1 greats..hilarious!

    Q, yep can catch up tomorrow and I'll hand over all the dvds then.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Just posting to reinforce that the Quaife is an ATB (Auto Torque Biasing) unit and does not have the same handling characteristics to that of a ZF plate type.

    Cons : can only reach 80% torque transfer. Although if you're not into doing lots of 360 spins in Motokhana/Autocross/SoloII then 80% is sufficient for a FWD.

    Pros : doesn't wrench the wheel out of you hands when negotiating a corner as the clutch-plates engage/disengage. Completely load (torque sensing) dependant. Still has that natural sustain and coast feel, but with a nice aggressive power on feeling.


    My previous car Ford 5.0i V8 had a rear differential with 3 plates rated at 15%. It meant that under hard acceleration it still only had 45% torque transfer aswell as the fact you could feel the clutches. The problem with this sort is that you'd have to spend over 2grand to get a unit that feels as progressive whilst achieving 99% transfer.

  18. #18
    Tadpole Candellan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    What are you thinking about fitting one into?
    I was thinking of one for my AE82 Corolla Seca. Actually I could've used one on the weekend. I took the poor old Rolla to the skid pan for some FWD drifting.

    I have a welded diff in my Bluebird & the turn-in understeer is just wierd compared to all of the open diffs I've driven in the past.
    Last edited by Candellan; 17th November 2004 at 03:22 PM.

  19. #19
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    umm... do you mean welded as in 100% unconditionally locked together ?

    no wonder the thing understeered. You come flying into the corner and suddenly you need the outside wheel to rotate faster than the inside wheel... thus the wheel with the most friction/traction coefficient overpowers the other. Basically the outside wheel is 'driving' and the inside wheel is 'scrubbing'. Any small loss of traction through scrub will cause the car to want to understeer like buggery.

  20. #20
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    Picked the car up saturday...

    jumped in and .... pwwwoarr .... what f'ing stinks. The old diff was sitting right next to me and damn that gearoil is pretty nasty on the nose.
    But that new gear oil has made the world of difference. I recommend that all french cars that are a little notchy MUST try it out. Where i was having trouble before in 1st >> 2nd, 3rd << 2nd and 3rd << 1st the gearbox just makes a nice 'THOCK' noise and slots straight in. COLD, WARM, HOT // RAIN or SHINE = Brrrrm Thock Bmmmmm

    NeoRacing Platinum Series SAE 75W-90HD An aerospace grade synthetic lubricant with a 100% synthetic diester base. Highly recommended for use with Quaife ATB LSD.
    I've been told not to do any wheelspin, axle tramp, hard cornering for a little while even though Neo say the oil is perfectly suited to new drivetrain and bearings. And be aware that Posi-Additive may be required if the gear lube is excessive.

    The steering is definately heavier. And the tendency to want to straighten up was alarming. Due to the speed dependant power steering i was used to driving one handed. I went around the first turn (Main Nth onto Robe or whatever) a nice large radii turn and the car nearly ripped the wheel outta my hand, but the moment i grabbed the wheel hard it felt soo good.

    I cant wait to head on up into the hills.

    My breakdown in costs are as follows:

    $1225 - Quaife Auto Torque Biasing Limited Slip Differential
    $150 - Differential (Side Carrier) Bearings * 2
    $30 - Differential Ring Gear Bolts * 8
    $15 - LH Driveshaft Seal
    $40 - RH Driveshaft Seal
    $40 - NeoRacing Gear Oil * 2.2 Ltr
    $390 - LABOUR

    I have a NB here that says : "Crown Wheel fits on opposite side of LSD". How does that work ?? If it fits on the opposite side doesnt that mean it'll drive backward ??

    I have some NeoRacing Power Steering fluid here that I'll put in due the extra stress on the Steering. Plus i know what goes on a Vehicle Manufacturing Production Lines i suggest everyone replace ALL fluid the moment you purchase a car

    So ALL in ALL a grand total just shy of $2000.

  21. #21
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Good to hear matey. I ran the Neo stuff in the GTI6 and it made a huge difference to shift quality. Very nice.

    Yep, you have to drive two handed now

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts gti138's Avatar
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    Great to hear that it all went well Q. When this unseasonal weather clears up we'll have to go for a drive....
    Murray : And there are flames coming from the back of Prost's car as he enters the swimming pool!
    James Hunt: Well that should put them out then!


    Mallala: 1:30.79





  23. #23
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    Yeah I hadn't made a post either but I wanted to test it out properly a la hills before I made judgement. In a word..fantastic. I don't find the extra straightening effect to be so significant, but then again I always use two hands when turning the wheel! Steering has slightly more weight to it, but I don't find it too heavy. The ability to put power down is nothing short of amazing. The other day when it was pouring on the road, I found a nice medium/tight corner with a very good open run off..just in case..and once turned in, I nailed the throttle in 2nd at about 70 kph. Usually doing something like this in the wet would result in massive inside wheel spin and bugger all drive out of the corner. But in this case it hooked up so well and just hammered out of the corner, spinning both wheels as I exited. I tried a few other corners, and entry speed has not been affected at all either. Come in too fast, and the pleasures of using the rear to steer is still there as always.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! Pug4eva's Avatar
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    So, will this LSD fit any 206 GTI?
    I would love to see it in action before commiting my ride to one

  25. #25
    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug4eva
    So, will this LSD fit any 206 GTI?
    I would love to see it in action before commiting my ride to one
    There is also some 206GTi138's running around with this diff as well.

    - xTc -
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