torque steer
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: torque steer

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    396

    Default torque steer

    i was told that having drive shafts of unequal length eliminates torque steer. i just wanted to know exactly how this occurs.

    Advertisement


    if you go off the difference between my r12 (even lengths and heaps of torque steer-cannot keep it straight!) and my 405 (uneven lengths and no torque steer) this is true, but thats not really a comparison now is it?

    thanks

  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    I've heard some things blamed for torque steering, but that's a new one to the collection.
    Usually it's caused by a variety of things; knackered lower contol arm bushes being the favourite. I've seen collapsed rear swing arm bearings cause it (as the car tends to steer from the rear wheels), incorrect wheel alignment, ball joints as well as tie rod ends and rack ends. Cracked subframes even at a pinch, but I think if a car has similar or varied sized driveshafts, I can see no reason why that should affect it one way or the other.
    As an example, my BX16V had strong torque steer which I reduced by putting the directional tyres on the rear and adjusting the wheel alignment. I have since found that someone made an absolute balls of a rear arm bearing job which I'm currently rectifying. In teh case of the BX, it has one driveshaft that is so long that it has a centre bearing in it, whereas the other side is only about 1/2 to 2/3rds the length, so there goes the theory up the shoot.
    I think the cars you've used as comparison would best be described as coincidental rather than a common cause.

    Alan S
    Last edited by Alan S; 25th October 2004 at 02:09 PM.
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  3. #3
    Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    6,162

    Default

    Alan seems to have covered most of the bases there. But I was under the impression that equal length shafts minimised the amount of torque steer. Certainly in my 1.3 engined 12 the effect is minimal, but on a 17 the effect is more obvious likely due to more power. Certainly on those cars with unequal length shafts, the longer shaft usually has some sort of counter weight on it to minimise the effect.

    Sounds like here could be a few things wrong with the front of your 12 though, is it bone stock? As Iíve never found a 12, 16 or 17 in the uncontrollable torque steer camp. Check the condition of the caster rod bushes, upper and lower wishbone bushes, tie rod end bushes, ride (and steering rack) height, tyres and wheel offset, wheel alignment etc..

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    2,664

    Default

    Camber change as a car accelerates is responsible for a lot of torque steer. Suspension design makes all the difference here. Viz a 205 Gti doesn't have any, and an Alfa 33 or old Turbo MX-6 has stax.
    Sometimes when people go for very low profile tyres on a FWD, (such tyres have quite a square edge to them) even a minor camber change ( upon accelerating) will radically decrease the footprint and decrease tyre performance upon acceleration as the tyres dance round more on their edges.
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

  5. #5
    Member GunnaWanna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    49

    Default

    Yes as far as I was aware it is the other way around also, (driveshafts or unequal length have worse torque steer) not sure who told you that but it sound like they meant the other way around. It completely logical if you think about it anyway.

    Go the North South mounted engines equal drive shafts minimal torque steer
    para un auto de rapido fuego

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    6,248

    Default

    Seems to be a bit of confusion here - it's supposed to be the other way 'round. Unequal length shafts are meant to cause torque steer, as Simon alludes to.

    My R12 certainly darts about a fair bit under hard acceleration, but the driveshafts aren't anything to do with it. I put it down to movement in the wishbone bushes, and positive camber combined with bumps.

    Stuey

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    396

    Default

    well i actually put it down to the terrible tyres on the car, as i can get wheelspin just by planting the foot in second gear, and that was with the clutch slipping a little bit . wheelspin in third in the wet.

    i am rebuilding the engine at the moment, so while it is all apart i am doing some suspension work. new bushes and ball joints at every point, new adjustable shocks and hopefully some 17 springs lowered just a tad to compensate for the reduced weight of the 1.6 engine.

    oh, i'm also now running 185/50-14 yoko 539's on 14" 17G rims. obviously i will have a wheel alignment done too.

    hopefully that should fix the problem, cos i don't have any money left after all that.

    the only way i could see the unequal length shafts aleviating torque steer would be the twist of the longer shaft allowing that or the opposite side to grip a bit more and transfering power a little. but i can see this would more likely be the point of origin of torque steer -uncontrollable distributions of power- than the fix.

    would this be more accurate than the original statement?

  8. #8
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 3006882

    the only way i could see the unequal length shafts aleviating torque steer would be the twist of the longer shaft allowing that or the opposite side to grip a bit more and transfering power a little. but i can see this would more likely be the point of origin of torque steer -uncontrollable distributions of power- than the fix.

    would this be more accurate than the original statement?

    I can only see this being a problem once the BHP exceeded 1000.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  9. #9
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    2,404

    Default

    I'd say suspension geometry would have most to do with it. The car will lift on acceleration and will play with all sorts of settings, castor, camber etc which will also affect the scrub radius, thereby pulling the wheels around the road. Once this sets in motion you'd need to back off to allow the geomtry to settle again before the steer will go away.
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    6,248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 3006882
    the only way i could see the unequal length shafts aleviating torque steer would be the twist of the longer shaft allowing that or the opposite side to grip a bit more and transfering power a little. but i can see this would more likely be the point of origin of torque steer -uncontrollable distributions of power- than the fix.

    would this be more accurate than the original statement?
    Who told you this was the case, such that you are so sure it's right? I've been reading technical articles for years that refer to unequal length shafts causing torque steer - and quite a few others have said the same - so what's your source for this?

    Incidentally, make sure the castor is adjusted too. I couldn't believe the improvement in my steering with the castor done. Lighter and more accurate with better turn-in. I only wish I asked what setting they used the next day. This was at an old school suspension specialist I use for all my cars.

    For those in Perth - Glide in Newcastle Street. The best for alignments.

    Stuey

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    6,248

    Default

    OK, so I Googled "torque steer unequal length" - I didn't even open any of the links; the introductory stuff was enough to confirm that it's considered that unequal length shafts cause torque steer. Whether it's true or not, I don't know, but that's the theory...

    Stuey

  12. #12
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,256

    Default

    i have always thought unequal shafts cause it more than equal length shafts but the reason you can't feel it as much in the 405 is you have power steering and this also takes a lot of it out
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    396

    Default

    ahh, power steering. thats a very good point.

    stuey, i wasn't dead set certain that equal length shafts caused torque steer, i was just told this by a mechanic, thats why i asked, as it didn't really seem to add up.

    so we've sorted what vehicles torque steer occurs in and some possibe reasons for this, is there no one main reason or just a combination of little ones?

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    6,248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 3006882
    so we've sorted what vehicles torque steer occurs in and some possibe reasons for this, is there no one main reason or just a combination of little ones?
    A combination of reasons - alignment, tyres (quality, difference, pressure), suspension wear, suspension design, differing road surface, weight distribution etc. Lots of things.

    Stuey

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •