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Thread: Rotors

  1. #1
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    Icon5 Rotors

    Hi there,

    Can anyone help me understand why my left and right rotors are kinda bedding in differently. Just from the looks, the the right rotors seems much cleaner than the left. The left rotor seems to have more markings on the rotors kinda rusty, brownish in colour.

    Im using EBC TG rotors with Green stuff pads

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    Also there is quite a lot of noise coming from the left rotors, when braking and even when im not. its like its hitting something small as its going round.

    Thanks all

    Tim
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rotors-left-rotor.jpg   Rotors-right-rotor.jpg  

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Do you have many stray male dogs in your area?????
    It is your curb side rotor that is suffering.

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    checking for stone or gravel lodgement as suggested would be the first place to look,failing that check that the calipers are releasing properly and that the pads are in position properly.make sure there is no slop in the caliper.
    i have a 205 gti which are subseptuble[spelling?} to wear and slop in the calipres resulting in pad slippage when braking in reverse.check for rotor warping .usually deep scratches are from stones or gravel or sometimes incorrect pads
    .or there is always running the pads down to the metal to scratch em up good.
    if you are really worried go and get them trimmed down and polished up.a squealing noise can come from rotors with scratches but the noise that sounds like something hitting will have to be investigated further.hope some of this helps -BAZZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    Do you have many stray male dogs in your area?????
    It is your curb side rotor that is suffering.
    yup its the curb side one. but alas its locked up at nite. so dun think that theory is the rite one. but thanks..

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    checking for stone or gravel lodgement as suggested would be the first place to look,failing that check that the calipers are releasing properly and that the pads are in position properly.make sure there is no slop in the caliper.
    i have a 205 gti which are subseptuble[spelling?} to wear and slop in the calipres resulting in pad slippage when braking in reverse.check for rotor warping .usually deep scratches are from stones or gravel or sometimes incorrect pads
    .or there is always running the pads down to the metal to scratch em up good.
    if you are really worried go and get them trimmed down and polished up.a squealing noise can come from rotors with scratches but the noise that sounds like something hitting will have to be investigated further.hope some of this helps -BAZZ
    As jester_fu has recommended, I have taken off the wheel to have a closer inspection of the brakes. these are the things which i noted
    - firstly when i spin the rotor manually it seems harder to spin on one half of the rotor compared to spinning it other the other half. its only marginally harder but u can feel it. and when it gets harder to spin its making that slight abrasive noice or brakes engaging.
    - trying to look in between the brakes and the rotors. well... i can't! its soo tight i cant even get a single piece of paper in between. is this norm? whats the usual distance between the brake and the rotor?
    - erm apart from that i cant note any else out of the unusual...

    any other suggestions?
    Thanks
    Tim

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    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    I always had an issue with the EBC's I use where they are a pretty tight fit when new. Has to do with the pad possibly being too thick. I'd persever for a while and see how it goes. One possible cause of rthe different beding in could be that more braking is done on the drivers side rather than the passengers cause of the added weight. Are you a pretty big bloke?
    B to the R to the A from the D
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I don't think driver's weight would make a difference, but braking into roundabouts might...

    The right hand side might be susceptible to greater wear as you swing left. Also into left hand bends and intersections. I think the right hand brake would get the most work under these circumstances, and this would be the majority of your braking that's not in a straight line.

    But turning the disc and finding that there is a tight spot, that indicates possible warping of the disc, or incorrect seating of the disk on the hub... or something else that's not as likely as you would be talking about vibrations in the steering.

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    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Well I know with my brakes the left front and rear had a small amount of meat on them while the right was on metal
    B to the R to the A from the D
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    Just a though

    Were these new rotors, or were they machined before new pads were fitted. if not machined sometimes, new pad will bear on an unmachined section and not apply braking force to the whole machined area.

    If this is so, then that would account for the rusting of the rotor surface as the pad material is not bearing on the rotor and cleaning off the surface rust as the other one is clearly doing.

    In time any uneven section would wear away the friction material and then bed in properly over the whole rotor, but it is better to machine the rotors when fitting new pads otherwise old errors/shudder will be retained- and of course make sure the machined area of the rotor will accomodate the complete pad.

    Ken

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Brad
    Well I know with my brakes the left front and rear had a small amount of meat on them while the right was on metal
    Can you think of somewhere you regularly drive where you are turning left as you brake hard?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nggy
    As jester_fu has recommended, I have taken off the wheel to have a closer inspection of the brakes. these are the things which i noted
    - firstly when i spin the rotor manually it seems harder to spin on one half of the rotor compared to spinning it other the other half. its only marginally harder but u can feel it. and when it gets harder to spin its making that slight abrasive noice or brakes engaging.
    - trying to look in between the brakes and the rotors. well... i can't! its soo tight i cant even get a single piece of paper in between. is this norm? whats the usual distance between the brake and the rotor?
    - erm apart from that i cant note any else out of the unusual...

    any other suggestions?
    Thanks
    Tim
    It's absolutely normal for the pads to be practically touching the disc at all times. If it didn't, you'd have a fair bit of pedal travel.

    That brownish colour doesn't look like rust, it looks like heat discolouration - as far as I can see on the photo.

    It's quite a strange problem, because the normal answers apply to older cars - things I can think of include a siezed caliper or caliper piston, but because you mention the off/on nature of the binding, I'd have thought the disc was mounted on some dirt or rust to make it slightly out of alignment. But on a 307, the mounting surface should still be pristine. Certainly sounds like that disc has gotten too hot and warped.

    Stuey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    It's absolutely normal for the pads to be practically touching the disc at all times. If it didn't, you'd have a fair bit of pedal travel.

    That brownish colour doesn't look like rust, it looks like heat discolouration - as far as I can see on the photo.

    It's quite a strange problem, because the normal answers apply to older cars - things I can think of include a siezed caliper or caliper piston, but because you mention the off/on nature of the binding, I'd have thought the disc was mounted on some dirt or rust to make it slightly out of alignment. But on a 307, the mounting surface should still be pristine. Certainly sounds like that disc has gotten too hot and warped.

    Stuey
    Hi all,
    Thanks all for all the info.
    firstly, im sure that the colour is not due to rust but just rust/brown coloured.
    Also the rotors and pads are new as i mentioned in my previous thread. so i dont think its gotta do with using new pads on old rotors.

    Just as long as its not a safety issue, i guess all i can do is just ride it out and hope that it rectifies itself, if not its back to OEM stuff...

  13. #13
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    nggy, if it's a warped disc or is mounted slightly out of kilter, it won't rectify itself.

    If you're game, here's a test. This is a simple version of how the brake guys do it. Try to lever the pads back slightly so they aren't quite touching the disc - don't lever off the disc surface or the pad face, but try to do it off of the edge of the pad backing plate at each end of the pad. This'll push the piston(s) back very slightly into the caliper. Then take a screwdriver and hold it hard up against the brake caliper so the tip is just touching the disc, at 90 degrees to the disc surface somewhere near the outer edge. Holding the screwdriver firmly, spin the disc with the other hand. If the screwdriver clearly touches, then doesn't, then touches again, you need to fix this. Any amount of run out that you can easily detect in this way is usually too much.

    To do it properly they use a plunger type dial guage, BTW, which shows the amount of variance on a measurement dial.

    Still, a puzzling problem with new discs and pads...

    Stuey
    Last edited by Stuey; 26th October 2004 at 12:32 AM.

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    They look alright to me, just very bloody new and havent bedded in even slightly yet. I hope you are bedding them properly - ie no hard stops? You can stuff the pads and glaze everything up if you lean on them hard to bed them in too quickly.

    But make sure they are put in right, and the calipers are clean of grime where the pads are located to ensure they are not jamming in the caliper. And make sure the caliper sliders are free (ie with pads out, will the caliper move back and forth) - these are very prone to seizing, resulting in the inner pad doing more work than the outer.
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    I have the same pad/rotor combo in my S16, and new Green Stuff pads do take a little longer to wear in, compared to OEM pads. Unless you recently pressure washed the car those disk look VERY new, and I too would wait a bit to see how they bed. - Chris
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    I know the process of bedding in has been covered before...

    But whats the amount of time/k's that it takes?

    I did about 1/2hr of driving with the application on brake of 4s & then cool down & repeat...15min wait, then another 1/2hr of driving...
    Then back to normal driving, to/from work slowly, freeway etc, nothing hard & VERY cautious of hard braking & stoppin @ lights etc...

    Anything else you guys would recommend?
    (new pads on 1yr old rotors)

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    I have never bothered applying a "method" to bedding - just dont hammer them for a while! Just brake normally, but without undue pressure.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    i just replaced the pads in a mates ford panelvan and the recommended bed in procedure on the side of the bendix pack went like this.
    find straight bit of road with no traffic.drive the car to 80km an hour and gently apply brakes at first then slightly harder bringing the car to a stop within 50 meters.
    repeat 8-10 times and dont brake heavy for at least 100km.
    the same was said for the mintex racing pads i use on my 205 gti.
    incorrect bedding can and will lead to squeaky ,high squeal or uneven brake wear.
    these pads have a ceramic coating that has to be worn off before they work %100.
    the coating helps the rotors as well by wearing uneven surfaces away before the softer pad material is being used.
    i always bed my pads in and i dont want to be rude but telling people not to worry about it aint good advice,i suppose it depends on how much money you like to throw away.
    not bedding in can lead to damaged rotors and uneven pad wear-BAZZ

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    Yeah doing pretty much that...

    Cheers Baz

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    Quote Originally Posted by jester_fu
    It is VERY puzzling. I would have thought on a newish car like a 307, seizing of pistons/sliding mechanisms would have been rare... but this is an option as well. I had it happen on the rear of my Mi16. The pin the inner calliper slid on became stuck, so the majority of the braking was being done by 1 out of the 2 pads. Result: Noise and faster wear on the inner pad, eventually to the point it started making that noise pads make right at the end of thier life... luckily no metal on metal...

    I'd follow stuey's suggestion, and check the damn things are fitted right. I'd then remove the pads if there doesn't seem to be the run that stuey's talking about, and check the calipers and pistons move freely. Once you jimmy the pads back like Stuey suggested, it's a relatively simple job to actually pull the pads out. Unitl you pull the pads OUT, i wouldn't discount the idea of it being some obsticle.

    Maybe this sounds extreme.. and extremely stupid, but i have heard of cases of pads being fitted BACKWARDS... thats right, metal side to the disc!! Absolute morons... but... if you know what the pad looks like out of the car, nggy, it should be possible for you to check it in the car.

    I don't think what you are describing is normal, and its certainly no time to adopt the "Laissez faire" attitude. Get it looked at one way or another, and find out what/if anything is wrong before it costs you another set of pads and rotors...
    hmm. ok update all.
    drove the car over 100km today over start stop kinda traffic and some long fast stretches.

    - firstly i still notice the noise coming from the from right rotor. the different looking one.
    - and when i brake there is a not a constant kinda hissing noise as brakes do as they stop. but i think its cause of the slots and dimples as the pads roll over them. Am i right? anyone else with EBCs that can describe the noise? lol sorry i know i dont know much but i would appreciate any help.
    - Braking seems consistent. but initial bite doesnt seem as good as the OEM's. didnt really expect that from 'performance' type brakes but overall ok.
    - guess im gonna call peugeot to book my car in for a look see. may just tell them to remove the rotors and reassemble it and see if anythings amiss.
    - also the brakes now squeel (a little) when i brake, whether its moderate or light braking.
    ooh. another thing. i think that ive done about 300-400kms on the brakes already. donno if thats enuf.

    Tim
    Last edited by nggy; 25th October 2004 at 08:31 PM.

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    There IS a recommended bedding in procedure, usually variations on the following...the idea is to vapourise the resins in the pad material without glazing the pad.

    Drive on a road where there's little traffic, then speed up to about 80km/h and brake quite firmly (but not a panic stop) down to about 10km/h or so, but don't stop. Immediately speed up to 80 or so and travel for a few hundred yards to remove a bit of heat, then repeat - about 5-10 times. Then drive a few k's at moderate speed using the brakes normally until you get home. Done.

    Stuey

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    I only got the EBC Greenstuff pads in the car the night before i was to race at Mallala. First thing i noticed is that they had good initial bite but squealed like pigs. I treated them nice on the way home, hardly used them as it was peak hour traffic. The next morningwas the long drive to Mallala. I did the bed in procedure as listed numerous times on this website as i went. Gti138 probably wondered what i was doing as i was supposedly following him. Anyway got to mallala and they were ready.

    And they worked very well.

    What i have noticed since the transition is: absolutely no squeal, they like to be warmed up a tad - but then they bite hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRI'S16
    I have the same pad/rotor combo in my S16, and new Green Stuff pads do take a little longer to wear in, compared to OEM pads. Unless you recently pressure washed the car those disk look VERY new, and I too would wait a bit to see how they bed. - Chris
    here's the update.
    I brought the car into a peugeot dealership got charged $112 bucks and got told that the noise is due to the pads running over the rotors. nothing else noted.....

    didnt even take apart the rotors or pads. didnt even notice the noise until i had to drive with one of them in the vehicle.

    sigh...

    maybe its back to expensive OEM brakes for me...

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