Are 504Ti and 505SLi motors the same?
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  1. #1
    Member 4WDrift's Avatar
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    Icon6 Are 504Ti and 505SLi motors the same?

    I haven't seen anything on here relating to 505SLi's, but that motor looks alright... anyone have any opinions or specs?

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4WDrift
    I haven't seen anything on here relating to 505SLi's, but that motor looks alright... anyone have any opinions or specs?

    they are the same block

    i think, different heads

    injection is different and the SLi is not a good setup


    the SLi setup was in my opinion an afterthought for peugeot who basically threw a half baked injection system on the XN engine
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    Member 4WDrift's Avatar
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    Ahh, ok, thanks... that kinda ruins that little dream. Better off to know now than later though.

  4. #4
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Others say it was a good setup...

    The head is essentially the same.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4WDrift
    I haven't seen anything on here relating to 505SLi's, but that motor looks alright... anyone have any opinions or specs?
    The 504TI used Kugelfisher mechanical fuel injection, and the pump was driven by a toothed belt from the camshaft. So, although the block is much the same the cam chain cover area is different. There is a lot of extra stuff needed too, like the barometer thingy & fuel return lines etc.

    The SLi I think was an attempt to get the old motor to run on unleaded & meet pollution regs. It's Bosch K-jetronic with lambda (oxygen) sensor. K-jetronic is a dog, and unreliable if not looked after. Expensive to get fixed too.

    Kugelfisher by comparison goes real well & has no compromises for pollution, and is very reliable so long as you keep water out & the filters clean. Geez they are getting old now though.

    Hope this helps.

    Barry.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    for ease of tuning and upkeep i would pick the 504TI system over the SLi system everytime

    the 504TI system is simple and once it is set right hardly ever needs adjusting

    just keep the filters clean and keep a diapragm in the glovebox just in case
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

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    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Member 4WDrift's Avatar
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    Thanks fellas, I'd been wondering about the SLi after I poked my head under the bonnet of a nice silver example in the back yard of a local dealer. He tells me it has injection problems - apparently major ones as it's been sitting for quite a while. I was just curious, as it was an injected motor with easy access to the distributor! Always a plus for me...
    But not knowing much (anything) about injection systems, I'm very happy to hear your feedback, thanks for your help.

  8. #8
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    It would be perfect for an LPG conversion...

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    Funny you should say that Ray, as gas conversion is one of the things I definately want to do when I finally become a proud 505 owner.

    By that, do you mean that a gas conversion would alleviate the problematic nature of the SLi injection system? I run gas in my current (carby) vehicle, but having never had anything to do with an fuel-injected car, I have no idea about the difficulties etc. of fitting it.

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Use the throttle body and manifold, disconnect the injection, put a mixer between the air cleaner and the throttle body.

    I believe straight gas is the go...

  11. #11
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    I'm running straight gas on my 504. It has an LTi head on a 505 block. With a 5 speed gearbox behind it, I get around 25mpg around town. Approximately 1/3 the fuel bill, low down torque is outstanding but past 4000rpm it is completely gutless. I suspect I may have the camshaft timing out, but at this point dont really care. Moral of the story: the 4 port heads are great on gas, only problem is valve seat recession. I have a flashlube system running on mine. The SLi head would not have that problem (all peugeot motors in australia after 1983 had hardened valve seats).

  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Could that top end gutlessness be camshaft-derived?

    As one currently contemplating a TI to gas conversion, I've thought about it a bit.

    The TI cam is built to give lots of vacuum, so doesn't have some of the lumpiness that could help give top end.

    Additionally, I understand that a very successful similar conversion that was done in Melbourne and is on a car now in Brisbane had a total revamp of the advance curve in the distributor. This apparently made a huge difference.

    I am either going to buy this engine or, at the very least, I will get access to the distributor and get it charted so I can duplicate it. I'm happy to pass on the information, but one thing... don't get a TI distributor modified, please! They are rare enough... there are plenty of carby distributors around that can cop a butchering.

    I am thinking also that the large ports in the TI head lend themselves to LPG usage. The owner of the car mentioned reckons it goes very well indeed, and has done for 700,000kms.

    Keep in touch, if you want to text me so I can advise you directly when I find out anything, my number's 0410 53 2380.

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    Member 4WDrift's Avatar
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    Thanks Demannu, it's good to know about the later model valve seats.
    I bought a fairly decent 1985 505Gti today, so the SLi isn't in the realm of possibility any more. I guess I'll be re-thinking the whole gas equation again, based on it's effect on performance/economy/etc. - relative to the GTi.

    Any thoughts are most welcome...

  14. #14
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Oh, and I forgot to include this bit...

    A tin canister in the gasline will eliminate your valve seat problem.

  15. #15
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by 4WDrift
    Funny you should say that Ray, as gas conversion is one of the things I definately want to do when I finally become a proud 505 owner.

    By that, do you mean that a gas conversion would alleviate the problematic nature of the SLi injection system? I run gas in my current (carby) vehicle, but having never had anything to do with an fuel-injected car, I have no idea about the difficulties etc. of fitting it.
    It's a more complicated issue if you want to run dual fuel, but probably easier if you want straight gas.

  16. #16
    Member 4WDrift's Avatar
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    Cheers Ray. It's good to know you're looking into gas as well.

  17. #17
    Member 4WDrift's Avatar
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    I run straight gas on my m********** van at present, only because the fuel pump is had it. I really have no idea what that is doing to the valves etc. I think that engine might be living on borrowed time...
    I run a simple oil injection system - available from most accessory shops for about $50 - in an effort to compensate for the dryness of the gas-only setup

  18. #18
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    I haven't used a Ti distributor, I've used a 505 electronic system, with the vaccuum advance removed. And i'm finding it difficult to work out how to fit the tin canister in the LPG tank!!

  19. #19
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    The tin canister has to be purchased with the fittings for the gas line... rather than the simple hoseclamp arrangement for petrol lines.

    It goes into the line before the converter...

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I am interested in these gas 504's. I have run a round port head in a 72 model for years on duel fuel but run petrol only if I run out of gas. It has a dripper kit that mostly works and I have had virtually no valve seat recession whatsoever. It has a revamped distributor, std cam, and runs out of puff at higher revs. The mixer is in the aircleaner sitting on a weber. The actual volume of air that can enter the mixer is exactly equal to what is available in one throat of the weber. I have drilled a 12 dia hole in the top of the mixer to allow more air in and it pulls better in the higher revs but this upsets the mixture at lower revs.
    I have often wondered if an inline mixer would help out. Where and what type of mixer are others using or are you all on straight gas with gas "carby's" ?
    My dripper kit is a Morey kit from NZ and the lubricant is thicker than Flashlube. $18 a litre and it lasts a long time.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo

    keep a diapragm in the glovebox just in case
    Failing that a condom will do or tell her to keep her legs crossed.
    Neil
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  22. #22
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Bob D... I can't frankly see the sense in using anything that requires ongoing top-ups. The tin canisters are not only forever, but you can easily move them from car to car if required. Prices start at around $120.

    On the subject of the mixer in the air cleaner... the XE or thereabouts Falcon used a dual choke Weber and a carby-top mixer from one of these would surely be perfect for your job?

    Gas isn't as efficient, by the way, when it's forced to feed through a carby.

    In my case, I'm going to use the TI's butterfly and get a mixer (in all probability) from the nose of the EFi of an early 90s Falcon. a very simple setup... but I'll have to disable the fuel injection (or run it full time with no fuel going through it... or maybe even run the injector lines back to a return to the petrol tank! That way I could bring it into play if I ran out of gas, but I'd really prefer to eliminate it at have a single SU somewhere that I could call on in emergencies.

    I've just purchased two stainless steel LPG cylinders, so I've started gathering my gear. I'd love to have bought the Impco gear off that EFi Falcon yesterday, but they wanted a price that must surely have been more than buying the bits new!

  23. #23
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    Ray,
    It is a Falcon mixer in the aircleaner I am running !
    I am 56km return from my nearest filling station and so I need the backup petrol. I am willing to try an easy alternative that will work with the XN 1 and Weber. Thanks for your reply.

  24. #24
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    But is it a mixer off the Falcon that had the Weber that bolts straight onto a Pug manifold and takes the Pug air cleaner?

    Anyway, I'd say just haunt all the wreckers looking for the right one and pick it up when it comes available... I'm on the lookout for one of those for another car, but I'll let you know if I find a supply.

  25. #25
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    Ray
    It is a 32/36 DGAV off a Cortina. The mixer came later and was slightly modified at the base to fit onto the Weber. The air cleaner is an after market version with a thin sports air filter.

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