PRV flywheels
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Thread: PRV flywheels

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! aquinian's Avatar
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    Default PRV flywheels

    I am the luckiest bloke in Australia. Just found a RHD bell-housing for a PRV V6 and I didn't have to take out a loan.

    Now, the bloke who imported it won't part with the flywheel at this stage, so I may have to obtain one elsewhere. Has anybody fabricated one and if so can I please have some contact details?

    Cheers,
    John Lane (the Aussie one sans 700bhp)

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquinian
    I am the luckiest bloke in Australia. Just found a RHD bell-housing for a PRV V6 and I didn't have to take out a loan.

    Now, the bloke who imported it won't part with the flywheel at this stage, so I may have to obtain one elsewhere. Has anybody fabricated one and if so can I please have some contact details?

    Cheers,
    John Lane (the Aussie one sans 700bhp)


    go and buy a lottery ticket

    i know how you feel though as when i went to pull a motor out of a volvo that was sitting upside down i had to look twice when i saw a clutch slave cylinder sitting there so i ended up with a PRV flywheel

    i have thought about asking around if someone could make one up
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  3. #3
    farmerdave
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquinian
    I am the luckiest bloke in Australia. Just found a RHD bell-housing for a PRV V6 and I didn't have to take out a loan.
    Good stuff. I went down this road a way with the renault before deciding that the auto would be cheaper short term.
    Consensus from local machinists was that copying the original in steel plate would be cheap and simple using the ringear off the flexplate welded or shrunk into a recess. If you can measure or (much better) borrow the imported one then any competant machinist will be able to make one or more to fit the pug clutch or any other suitable clutch.

    Farmerdave

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    A blank would be better than a piece of plate, I understand...

  5. #5
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    I know a bloke in the Blue Mountains who makes flywheels from aluminium. As far as I know, his clients give him the original, and he makes a copy. Why can't a batch of PRV flywheels be made? It shouldn't be an overly complicated excercise.

    John
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  6. #6
    farmerdave
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    Ray, do you mean a cast iron blank or a steel blank? My posting is unclear: the method discussed with the machinist was to cut a disc (blank) from suitable 32mm plate and machine all surfaces on the disc.

    Farmerdave

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i'd say just machine it up from a cut out from a plate of say S1040 grade steel or similar would be the way to go

    i went through this a while ago and my thoughts were that something like S1040 which has a higher content of carbon in it would be ideal for something like a flywheel

    Ray, what do you mean by a blank ?

    do i take it as say a rough casting and machined from that ?

    if so where do you find such animals ?

    i'd start with a piece of plate, profile cut, machined then attach the ring gear

    alloy flywheels would be nice but would they be heavy enough for the PRV engine as i feel they may need the weight of the flywheel to balance out the rough idle of the odd fire engines to a certain degree
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peujohn
    I know a bloke in the Blue Mountains who makes flywheels from aluminium. As far as I know, his clients give him the original, and he makes a copy. Why can't a batch of PRV flywheels be made? It shouldn't be an overly complicated excercise.

    John

    I have a certain flywheel and it is like having a piece of gold and as such i am wary of parting with it, but if it was guaranteed to be returned then i could let it be used as a template to have some flywheels made up

    any idea on what this bloke charges ???
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  9. #9
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    No idea, but give me a couple of days or so and I'll find out. The guy is the brother of my cousin's husband. You'd be guaranteed to get your flywheel back!

    If I was to call him, what quantity of flywheels should I suggest as a starting point? I'd think quite a few people would like one if the price was right.

    He may be able to make them in steel as well as aluminium too. I'll find out.

    John
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! aquinian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peujohn
    If I was to call him, what quantity of flywheels should I suggest as a starting point? I'd think quite a few people would like one if the price was right.
    He may be able to make them in steel as well as aluminium too. I'll find out.
    John
    I'm going to visit the bloke with the flywheel tomorrow and see if I can change his mind. In the mean time anybody considering putting a manual behind a PRV needs to keep in mind you'll need several other parts, including a shorter-input-shaft BA 7 or 10, plus the clutch parts of which the drive plate centre (i.e. the part to match the spline) is different from anything else, including all other Peugeot clutches.

    There are various solutions to these challenges, but if you're not aware of them you may waste some money finding out! Perhaps somebody who has fuller info could post the details. Oddfire, you around?

    Cheers,
    John Lane.

  11. #11
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Can't the BA10 input shaft from the slogger (or diesel) be shortened? I think it would be quite possible, and simple... and then the centre from the regular 504 clutch plate could be used to make up what's needed.

    By 'blank' I did mean a blank casting. Dave Mawer had a whole bunch of them made for racing flywheels twenty years ago, I'm sure you'd find it easy to get them today as there is so much serious racing going on...

  12. #12
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquinian
    I'm going to visit the bloke with the flywheel tomorrow and see if I can change his mind. In the mean time anybody considering putting a manual behind a PRV needs to keep in mind you'll need several other parts, including a shorter-input-shaft BA 7 or 10, plus the clutch parts of which the drive plate centre (i.e. the part to match the spline) is different from anything else, including all other Peugeot clutches.

    There are various solutions to these challenges, but if you're not aware of them you may waste some money finding out! Perhaps somebody who has fuller info could post the details. Oddfire, you around?

    Cheers,
    John Lane.

    the parts needed are

    V6 bell housing - very hard to find but other possibilities are around
    PRV flywheel - can be fabricated
    504/5 clutch cylinders - plenty of these around
    504/5/604 clutch fork - as above
    BA10/4/5 box - a few of these around
    clutch to suit (now i have ran a 2L 505 clutch with a 505 BA10/5 and it worked well but if you planned on racing the car this would not be the way to go and i'd say an uprated clutch would be the better option)
    pressure plate - i have heard of a ford one that can be adapted
    clutch pedal from a 504 if using a 504/604 and a 505 one if using a 505

    the input shaft can be shortened to fit in so it's not a biggy
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Janek's Avatar
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    If someone is getting flywheels made to measure, count me in.. i am sure at least a dozen people around here would be definately interested in one...
    Am curious as to how much it costs though...

    -Janek

  14. #14
    farmerdave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    By 'blank' I did mean a blank casting. Dave Mawer had a whole bunch of them made for racing flywheels twenty years ago, I'm sure you'd find it easy to get them today as there is so much serious racing going on...
    Thanks Ray, yes a casting ( cast iron of some sort) has some advantages in terms of giving a better friction surface and better sound damping but unless you could get a foundryman to centrifugally cast them in the right mix and x-ray them things could get "interesting".

    Farmerdave

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    can i just add in here before people get too excited that a solution to the bell housing issue still raises its head here

    now then i have come up with the idea of using an XN bell housing and having adaptor plates made to bolt them to the PRV block

    what i don't have is access to an XN housing to place up to an engine to see what needs to be done to make one fit so if anyone who has an XN housing lying around and a PRV block sitting there can you dummy something up and see what you can come up with please

    now making adaptor plates up is the oldest trick and has been done many many times with so many different box/engine combinations

    now keep in mind all a bell housing is, is a housing to hold the engine and box in alignment, hold the starter and house the clutch/flywheel and of course it is in the shape of a bell hence the name so anything that covers all of the above is what is needed

    the flywheel i have is slightly thicker than a pug one so the adaptor plate on an XN housing combined with this flywheel is a perfect combination

    i am happy to loan my flywheel for a template so it's over to you guys but the solution to the housing needs to be finalised before excitement over the flywheel
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! Janek's Avatar
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    true, but in any case, if flywheels are going to be made up, i think a group order will be in order, even without the bellhousing issue solved...

    i am very close to having a chat to my uncle in the us and getting him to see if he can source a few bits and pieces... it may be the only viable option (whether it be time, money, or availability...)

  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janek
    true, but in any case, if flywheels are going to be made up, i think a group order will be in order, even without the bellhousing issue solved...

    i am very close to having a chat to my uncle in the us and getting him to see if he can source a few bits and pieces... it may be the only viable option (whether it be time, money, or availability...)


    one is no good without the other so it is best if it is sorted out before hand to save any hassles

    in the long run you will see that it is the better way to go

    otherwise it's just like the irishman who traded in his telly for a VCR
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  18. #18
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    I'm just putting together my V6 manual 505 GTi. I have used a Renault 30 clutch and flywheel, apparently this setup is lighter than the Peugeot version, and it is definately lighter than the immense volvo setup!!

    2.7 litre oddfire, 604 engine mounts, Gas Research carby on a twin plenum fuel injection manifold, running straight gas with electronic ignition, Renault 30 flywheel and clutch, 505 clutch fork and thrust bearing, 504 clutch slave cylinder, LHD V6 bell housing with the starter motor bracket swapped to the LH side, genuine V6 BA10/5 gearbox. It's sitting on the floor fully assembled, waiting for me to find the time to put it in. Motivation issues.

    Anyway, moral of the story is, I found a Renault R25/R30 flywheel much easier to find than a Peugeot one, and I wasn't interested in the volvo one.

    You can also buy the Peugeot flywheel and clutch brand new if you have about $850 to part with.

    Scott

  19. #19
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Further to that, if you're looking for the spigot bearing, it is the same one as for a ZDJ motor, however it is no longer supplied by Peugeot.

    Easiest way to get it is to go to your favourite bearing supplier (i used CBC, bearing cost me $5.50), ask for a rubber sealed bearing 40mm OD, 17mm ID, 12mm thick. Easy.

    Scott

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu
    Further to that, if you're looking for the spigot bearing, it is the same one as for a ZDJ motor, however it is no longer supplied by Peugeot.

    Easiest way to get it is to go to your favourite bearing supplier (i used CBC, bearing cost me $5.50), ask for a rubber sealed bearing 40mm OD, 17mm ID, 12mm thick. Easy.

    Scott
    I was wondering if the V6 input shaft was the same size as the ZDJ engines.
    This means that anyone who is shortening a push rod input shaft to suit will have to also incease the shaft diameter by 1mm to take it from 16mm to 17mm.
    Forget Peugeot, I bought the bearing last week from EAI.
    How's the MI 16 504 coming along?

    Graham

  21. #21
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    I was wondering if the V6 input shaft was the same size as the ZDJ engines.
    This means that anyone who is shortening a push rod input shaft to suit will have to also incease the shaft diameter by 1mm to take it from 16mm to 17mm.
    Forget Peugeot, I bought the bearing last week from EAI.
    How's the MI 16 504 coming along?

    Graham

    not too hard to shrink fit a sleeve onto the shaft to increase the diameter

    or maybe you can get a bearing with a 16mmID
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    not too hard to shrink fit a sleeve onto the shaft to increase the diameter

    or maybe you can get a bearing with a 16mmID

    Yes, but nobody has mentioned this when talking about shortening input shafts,
    Bearings with 16mm ID don't seem to be available.
    Graham

  23. #23
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    I was wondering if the V6 input shaft was the same size as the ZDJ engines.
    This means that anyone who is shortening a push rod input shaft to suit will have to also incease the shaft diameter by 1mm to take it from 16mm to 17mm.
    Forget Peugeot, I bought the bearing last week from EAI.
    How's the MI 16 504 coming along?

    Graham
    I'm sure you could find a 16mm ID bearing somewhere, CBC have never failed me before. Thickness of the bearing isn't that critical, so that would increase your choices.

    On another topic, the Mi16 504 has slowed to a crawl, as too many other projects pile up. The Mi16 block is sitting on the floor attached to the BA7/5, but that's about it at the moment. Unfortunately my 'spare' car (505 SR) has just sh1t itself so I have to get that going again before I can take the 504 off the road for the fitment.

    Further to the flywheel discussion, a friend of mine here works for Extreme Clutches, she is confident she can make any clutch and flywheel out of anything you want (billet aluminium, steel, paper mache) if they have a template and you have the dollars.

    Scott

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! Janek's Avatar
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    the dollars is what is concerning me... still no idea on the approximate cost? i'd much rather get a new one cast rather than mixing and matching ring gear and what not... also, i remember that someone mentioned, i think it was graham, that someone ordered some bellhousings to be made... anyone have more info down this path?

    i just got my hands on a ba 10/5 box with absolutely rooted synchros (or something.. apparently it would not go into 2nd or 3rd at all), but will be rebuilding that too... i guess now my priority is the bellhousing and flywheel...

  25. #25
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    'rambo's thought about using the XN bellhousing and an adaptor...

    I'm sure the flywheel on the V6 is of greater diameter than that on the four... and that's typical of vee engines. A stepped starter may be needed to go this route. Not a bad thing in itself, and it opens the way to more available ring gears and more reliable electrics...

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