405 Mi16 V6 Turbo
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Icon10 405 Mi16 V6 Turbo

    Hi there,

    Just wanting some basic info on a V6 conversion.

    Has anyone done this in Aus before?

    What do 605 engines go for these days?

    I'm thinking of putting the 406 coupe Brembro Brakes in too, any thoughts?

    This would probably be in the next year or so, not looking imediately. But would be interested in buying an engine now (ish)

    Also, what manual gearbox would work wit the engine. Could I use my BE1?

    Turbo's, what type. Should I do something with the engine to get it turbo ready too?

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    Sorry bout all the questions but would love to know what people think about the idea. I knowthe cost would be lots.

    thanks

    Dave
    78 Fiat X1/9, Peugeot 406 ST, Peugeot 407 V6 SW

    Previous:

    05 Megane Turbo
    2x 89 405 Mi16
    67 404

    Peugeot, Francais pour "Putain qu'c'est vite"[/FONT]

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Rusty@'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Shearer
    Hi there,

    Just wanting some basic info on a V6 conversion.

    Has anyone done this in Aus before?

    What do 605 engines go for these days?

    I'm thinking of putting the 406 coupe Brembro Brakes in too, any thoughts?

    This would probably be in the next year or so, not looking imediately. But would be interested in buying an engine now (ish)

    Also, what manual gearbox would work wit the engine. Could I use my BE1?

    Turbo's, what type. Should I do something with the engine to get it turbo ready too?


    Sorry bout all the questions but would love to know what people think about the idea. I knowthe cost would be lots.

    thanks

    Dave
    BIIIGGGG BUUUUCCCCKKKS MAN!!! You must be keen. That machine will be a rocket after all that money is steadily packed under the bonnet!!!!! Post a pic won't you!!
    Current: '06 Iron Grey 407 SV HDi '02 Silver Audi S4 '05 GTi 180
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    BIIIGGGG BUUUUCCCCKKKS MAN!!! You must be keen. That machine will be a rocket after all that money is steadily packed under the bonnet!!!!! Post a pic won't you!!

    Just thinking about it currently. Yeah I know, huge moolah???
    If I secure an engine and re-build it. It hopefully wont cost too much to remove the old and drop in the new engine
    78 Fiat X1/9, Peugeot 406 ST, Peugeot 407 V6 SW

    Previous:

    05 Megane Turbo
    2x 89 405 Mi16
    67 404

    Peugeot, Francais pour "Putain qu'c'est vite"[/FONT]

  4. #4
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    please tell me you aren't serious about using a 605 engine to put in a 405

    for starters they are in my opinion too wide to fit in the 405 engine bay as they are a 90deg V

    you would be better off looking for a 406 V6 as they are only a 60deg V and won't be as wide

    other than that i wish you the best of luck and hope you don't mind loosing weight from your hip pocket as you are going to need more than just the engine transplant

    oh the other thing is, where are you going to find a 605 wreck to get an engine from ?

    there weren't too many in this country to start with so again the 406 is the easier option

    let us know what you come up with
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    please tell me you aren't serious about using a 605 engine to put in a 405

    for starters they are in my opinion too wide to fit in the 405 engine bay as they are a 90deg V

    you would be better off looking for a 406 V6 as they are only a 60deg V and won't be as wide

    other than that i wish you the best of luck and hope you don't mind loosing weight from your hip pocket as you are going to need more than just the engine transplant

    oh the other thing is, where are you going to find a 605 wreck to get an engine from ?

    there weren't too many in this country to start with so again the 406 is the easier option

    let us know what you come up with

    I know of one 605 wreck around. I just think a 406 V6 will cost heaps too much. I'll have a look around though. Why would the 60 deg engine be better than the 3.0 engine 90 deg one?

    I know I would have upgrade brakes, radiator etc. But what else would I need to do to get this thing ruinning?

    cheers
    Dave
    78 Fiat X1/9, Peugeot 406 ST, Peugeot 407 V6 SW

    Previous:

    05 Megane Turbo
    2x 89 405 Mi16
    67 404

    Peugeot, Francais pour "Putain qu'c'est vite"[/FONT]

  6. #6
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    If you are going to stick with a manual trans, probably the 406 V6 is the better way to go, at least for the flywheel and clutch. As there would be more manual 406 V6's around than 605 V6's of which there would be none in AUS. So sourcing a flywheel and clutch for the 605 motor becomes more of a another hassle in a project which is likely to need lots of other considerations. Also probably better to use the V6 gearbox rather than the Mi16 gearbox for longevity considerations.

    Actually, would a 405V6 be a better car than a 406V6 apart from the bragging value that it has been done? I can see lots of handling problems, especially with weight distribution........

    I thought a Pug was supposed to go through a corner, not fall off the edge of one :-)

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    Doesn't the 605 V6 have less power than the mi16, it's a 12valve isn't it?

    Just spend the money needed to try and fit the V6 on a mi16 turbo rebuild.

    I reckon using the 605 would be a step backwards.

  8. #8
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    Aditionally, if you plan to make it a single turbo, do you realise that it will be an absolute arse to get the exhaust manifolds off both sides of the block to a similar length to feed the turbo, especially in what will be a very confined area as as, what with the 90 degree block wedged in . . .

    Don't mean to sound negative, just outlining some of the important points.

    Adam

  9. #9
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Shearer
    I know of one 605 wreck around. I just think a 406 V6 will cost heaps too much. I'll have a look around though. Why would the 60 deg engine be better than the 3.0 engine 90 deg one?

    I know I would have upgrade brakes, radiator etc. But what else would I need to do to get this thing ruinning?

    cheers
    Dave

    compare the 605 V6 and 406 V6 to say a V8 windsor and cleveland

    the 605 engine is wider across the heads than the 406 version

    i think you will be in for no end of trouble iin regards to room with the 605 engine

    BTW if that engine is available can you enquire as to how much he wants for the exhaust manifolds please

    i had a quote from NZ but they were pretty exxy

    and as has been mentioned you are going to be hard pressed finding a flywheel for the 605 engine

    i admire your dream though
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  10. #10
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    Doesn't the 605 V6 have less power than the mi16, it's a 12valve isn't it?

    Just spend the money needed to try and fit the V6 on a mi16 turbo rebuild.

    I reckon using the 605 would be a step backwards.

    Type: 4/5S SAL (7)
    Designer: Pininfarina
    Number of doors: 4
    Dimensions
    Wheelbase: 2800 mm 110.23 in
    Track front: 1525 mm 60.03 in
    Track rear: 1525 mm 60.03 in
    Length: 4722 mm 185.90 in
    Width: 1800 mm 70.86 in
    Ground clearance: 100 mm 3.93 in
    Kerb weight: 1414 kg 641.38 lb
    Fuel capacity: 80 l 21.13 US gal


    Engine
    Code: ZPJ
    Manufacturer: Peugeot
    Type: V-6
    in 90 vee
    SOHC
    12 valves total
    2 valves per cylinder
    Main bearings: 4
    Bore x stroke: 93.00mm 73.00mm
    Bore / stroke ratio: 1.27
    Displacement: 2975 cc 181.54 cu in
    Compression: 9.50:1
    Fuel system: Renix fuel inj.
    Aspiration: Normal
    Catalytic Converter: Y
    Max. output: 169.3 PS (167.0 bhp) (124.5 kW)@5600 rpm
    Max. torque: 235.0 Nm (173 lbft) (24 kgm)@4650 rpm
    Coolant: Water
    Specific output: 56.1 bhp/litre
    Specific torque: 78.99 Nm/litre
    Performance
    0-100km/h: 8.9 s
    Kilometre: 29.60s
    Top speed: 225 km/h
    Power to weight: 118.1 bhp/ton
    Chasis
    Engine location: Front
    Engine alignment: Unknown
    Steering: rack & pinion PAS
    Turning circle: 12.00 m
    Suspension front: I.MS.LW.CS.ARB.
    Suspension rear: I.DW.CS.ARB.
    Wheels F/R: 6.5J x 15/6.5J x 15
    Tyres front: 205/60 VR 16
    Tyres rear: 205/60 VR 15
    Brakes: VeDi/Di-S
    Brake diametre: 276/290 mm
    Transmission: 5M
    Drive: FWD
    Top gear ratio: 0.77
    Final drive ratio: 4.07

    1987 Peugeot 405 MI-16 The following technical data is brought to you by ADAM FINE CARS

    Bodywork
    Type: 4/5S SAL (7)
    Designer: Pininfarina
    Number of doors: 4
    Dimensions
    Wheelbase: 2669 mm 105.07 in
    Track front: 1450 mm 57.08 in
    Track rear: 1435 mm 56.49 in
    Length: 4407 mm 173.50 in
    Width: 1692 mm 66.61 in
    Kerb weight: 1108 kg 502.58 lb
    Fuel capacity: 70 l 18.49 US gal
    Aerodynamics
    Drag coefficient: 0.31


    Engine
    Code: XU9 J4
    Manufacturer: Peugeot
    Type: S-4
    DOHC
    16 valves total
    4 valves per cylinder
    Main bearings: 5
    Bore x stroke: 83.00mm 88.00mm
    Bore / stroke ratio: 0.94
    Displacement: 1905 cc 116.25 cu in
    Compression: 10.40:1
    Fuel system: Bo Mot ML4 fuel inj.
    Aspiration: Normal
    Catalytic Converter: N
    Max. output: 157.2 PS (155.0 bhp) (115.6 kW)@6500 rpm
    Max. torque: 177.0 Nm (131 lbft) (18 kgm)@5000 rpm
    Coolant: Water
    Specific output: 81.4 bhp/litre
    Specific torque: 92.91 Nm/litre
    Performance
    0-60mph: 8.2 s
    0-100km/h: 8.6 s
    Quarter mile: 16.20s
    Kilometre: 29.70s
    Top speed: 220 km/h
    Power to weight: 139.89 bhp/ton
    Chasis
    Engine location: Front
    Engine alignment: Transverse
    Steering: rack & pinion
    Suspension front: I.MS.ARB.
    Suspension rear: I.TA.TB.ARB.
    Tyres front: 195/60 VR 14
    Tyres rear: 195/60 VR 14
    Brakes: VeDi/Di-S
    Transmission: 5M
    Drive: FWD
    Top gear ratio: 0.76
    Final drive ratio: 4.43
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  11. #11
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    as you can see there is stuff all difference between the hp of the 2 engines

    also the V6 will weigh more so you are better off going for the 406 variant that puts out closer to 200hp standard
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    as you can see there is stuff all difference between the hp of the 2 engines

    also the V6 will weigh more so you are better off going for the 406 variant that puts out closer to 200hp standard
    ... plus the fact that it will spoil the sweet handling the Mi16 gives you, with all that weight up front. Next you will need new uprated shocks and springs etc.
    I hate to sound negative but is it really worth it....-Chris
    ... ptui!

  13. #13
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jester_fu
    So.. thats about 12kW. Wont one of those PeterT cams add about 10kW to the standard Mi engine? That'd give you about 122kW for < $400. Not the same torque... so you'd be losing there. But hey, it's cheap and wouldn't need an engineers certificate or anything!!

    And.. doesn't the stock 406 V6 output about 135kW or something? With about the same torque as the 605? I'm not really sure.. if pugrmabo had an answer, i'd be very greatful!


    you called

    1999 Peugeot 406 SV 3.0

    Manufacturer: Peugeot
    Type: V-6
    DOHC
    24 valves total
    4 valves per cylinder
    Main bearings: 4
    Bore x stroke: 87.00mm 82.60mm
    Bore / stroke ratio: 1.05
    Displacement: 2946 cc 179.77 cu in
    Compression: 10.50:1
    Fuel system: Bo MP7.0 fuel inj.
    Aspiration: Normal
    Catalytic Converter: Y
    Max. output: 196.7 PS (194.0 bhp) (144.7 kW)@5500 rpm
    Max. torque: 267.0 Nm (197 lbft) (27.2 kgm)@4000 rpm
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  14. #14
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jester_fu
    Tah.. Mr Rambo. Well... those figures say it all! The 406 has nearly 100Nm more torque as well as more power. And what, may i ask Pugrambo, did they build the 406 block out of?? I thought it was an alloy with steel sleeves, but i could be wrong. If it is, there's a very good chance it's a lot lighter than the 605 engine as well.


    both engines have alloy blocks in them

    it would wiegh about the same as the 605 PRV or pretty close to it

    the advantage of the 406 V6 is that it is only a 60deg V so it will be smaller across the heads which gives you a little more room to play with in a confined space (ie 405 engine bay)
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! matt205's Avatar
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    I reckon for what it would cost to do properly you could buy a 406 Coupe (already has the brakes) and throw a turbo or two on that. No offence to the MI-16 crowd but it's a mucher better looking car with more potential.

    If you do decide to go ahead though I have a set of NEW Brembo Calipers/Pads/Discs that you can buy

    Other things you would need to consider would be suspension, aftermarket ECU (probably with a traction control feature) and a diff!
    Regards,
    Matt
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Imagine watching the entire French Air-Force crash into a fireworks factory. That's how much fun this car is."

    Jeremy Clarkson - talking about the V6 Clio
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    It's a silly amount of hp for a fwd car though. I doubt you'll ever get it all to the ground.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    yeah man your nuts.. you'll destory it!!

    Far easier, with probably more power and a shit load more drivability at the end by just getting a turbo kit for the Mi16 from the land of Europe as apposed to shoe-horning that monster in the front..

    Dude.. not worth it..


    Why bother with a Pug dinosaur.. if you wanted to use a 20b Rota however

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jester_fu
    So.. thats about 12kW. Wont one of those PeterT cams add about 10kW to the standard Mi engine? That'd give you about 122kW for < $400. Not the same torque... so you'd be losing there. But hey, it's cheap and wouldn't need an engineers certificate or anything!!

    And.. doesn't the stock 406 V6 output about 135kW or something? With about the same torque as the 605? I'm not really sure.. if pugrmabo had an answer, i'd be very greatful!

    Yeah its good, I already have one of those cams. SOunds like too much of a hassel. I could put quad throttle bodies on for a cheaper price than a new engine. Prob get more HP out of it anyways.

    cheers
    Dave
    78 Fiat X1/9, Peugeot 406 ST, Peugeot 407 V6 SW

    Previous:

    05 Megane Turbo
    2x 89 405 Mi16
    67 404

    Peugeot, Francais pour "Putain qu'c'est vite"[/FONT]

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! Tiop's Avatar
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    i rekon a 406 v6 twin turbo set up would be really cool (ive considered it but i dont have $$$ (i want a coupe)).wonder bout a super charger hmmm...

    yeah turbo the mi16 then sell to me cheap

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiop
    i rekon a 406 v6 twin turbo set up would be really cool (ive considered it but i dont have $$$ (i want a coupe)).wonder bout a super charger hmmm...

    yeah turbo the mi16 then sell to me cheap

    Yeah, I've just put a new engine into my car (at a bloody huge cost). I don't think I'll be doing even more work on that now. I love the idea of a T16 mock but can't be bothered at the moment. I think I like the sound of the 406 coupe turbo but that's a few years off yet. Perhaps after the 407 coupe comes out it would be more possible
    78 Fiat X1/9, Peugeot 406 ST, Peugeot 407 V6 SW

    Previous:

    05 Megane Turbo
    2x 89 405 Mi16
    67 404

    Peugeot, Francais pour "Putain qu'c'est vite"[/FONT]

  21. #21
    Tadpole
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    one man did the 406 V6 engien into a 405 in france. and the front brembo breaks
    from 406 coupe 3.0 do fit the 405 mi16. but the rear breaks don,t fit on the 405mi16
    Last edited by doc405; 20th January 2005 at 07:25 AM.

  22. #22
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    A pity the 405 T16 wasn't more widely available

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
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    Why bother? I mean, there's a certain point, with FWD, where it just isn't worth it. If you're really keen, stick a few grand into the current engine. It'll go like a cut cat, still be very usable, and you don't have to bugger around with sourcing engines, and tipping stupid amounts of money in, never to be seen again.

    If power is the issue, buy an import or something, otherwise, enjoy the car for what it was made for...

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nchandler
    Why bother? I mean, there's a certain point, with FWD, where it just isn't worth it. If you're really keen, stick a few grand into the current engine. It'll go like a cut cat, still be very usable, and you don't have to bugger around with sourcing engines, and tipping stupid amounts of money in, never to be seen again.

    If power is the issue, buy an import or something, otherwise, enjoy the car for what it was made for...

    its not really an issue now as I sold the car. I have seen a pic somewhere of it being done but as Peter T said I think it would need to be a 4x4 to be able to take the power
    78 Fiat X1/9, Peugeot 406 ST, Peugeot 407 V6 SW

    Previous:

    05 Megane Turbo
    2x 89 405 Mi16
    67 404

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  25. #25
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    The 405 V6 has been done a couple of times before using the 406s engine.

    Also the 406s V6 will fit in a 306!

    Sticking a turbo or two on with the V6 is just plane MAD!

    Have a look at these Peugeot tuning specialist, They have done loads of engine swops on Peugeots, Shame for you guys down under they are in Scotland over here in the U.K.

    On the 405 you can go for the GTI6 lump, 2 litre 8 valve turbo from the 406, The V6 from the 406 or they can turbocharge your MI16 lump.

    Click on the link, Then 405 at the top & then on Tuning Parts on the right

    http://www.ecosse-peugeot.co.uk/index.htm
    Last edited by LeePower; 24th January 2005 at 01:51 AM.
    2003 Pug 206 GLX TU3JP

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