205 fuel additives/injector cleaner
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Default 205 fuel additives/injector cleaner

    just got a lot of work done on my motor and was talking to the mechanic about fuel additives,he seems to think that the premium fuel does not have enough lubrication and was saying he noticed something which displayed evidence of this in my motor[cant recall exactly what]
    my question is what additives should i use in the motor to remedy this.[more lube]
    is it a good idea to use the injector cleaner additives that are available on the market today.
    i have been using spitfire.
    i was also told to use only peugeot coolant as the others a more corrosive on the alloy head.
    its pretty costly though.is it really worth it,i dont mind paying out a bit but want to know what the consensus is regarding this.
    please reply with brands you have used and any comments about your experiences with these and other inferior products available.
    thanks for your time-BAZZ
    i saw some additives at autobarn that are for cars using premium unleaded.i think had something to do with valve lubrication or some such,not sure just a stab in the dark.
    im just curious and was after some advice -BAZZ

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    Last edited by bazgti; 2nd September 2004 at 04:49 PM. Reason: can some one please explain what the additives i see in p

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Personally, I've found injector cleaners about as effective as a p!$$ in the ocean and what on earth is he talking about? petrol having lubricating properties??
    If you have dirty nozzles, the only way is to remove them and have them ultra sonically cleaned.
    I recently did something to one of our cars that would make a lot of people's hair stand on end. It's a trick used in Europe to decoke engines and I suspect cleans plugs and nozzles at the same time and that is to drop a teaspoon full of brake fluid down each plug hole and leave overnight. It smokes like a train when you refit the plugs and restart the engine, but in our case it gave us what feels like about a 10% power boost, made the engine much more responsive and flexible and got rid of the crappy nappy smell from the exhaust so it definitely does something.
    The best bit is it only costs a few cents to do.
    The thing I get a bit wary of Spitfire and similar is that these days, our cars are all 10 years+ old and most have rarely if ever had the "O" rings replaced on teh nozzles and I have heard of a couple blowing the "O" rings either whilst having or just after having these oily additives in the petrol with some fairly fiery results.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    Dont know how effective the fuel additive is. I might try Alans idea
    & see what happens...
    Peugeot only coolant! Any coolant will do as long as its suitable for
    use with an alloy head.


    84 505 GTi - Sold to a friend... written off 3 months later

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Just buy de-mineralised (not distilled) water from K-Mart and a concentrate, such as Nulon.

    There's nothing wrong with digesting brake fluid. I once saw a repairer sucking up fluid into the intake manifold (via a 4mm tube) in order to find an exhaust leak. The smoke soon shows up any exhaust leak!

    I agree with Alan. Get your injectors ultra sonic cleaned every 50 000km or so. That will cost approx. $100. A bargain compared to "injector cleaner".

    '92 205 Mi16
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    I have been using a Neo fuel additive in my 205, it cleans injectors and valves you add a bit each time you fill up, there was a thread on it before, do a search for Neo. I have noticed the car runs smoother and find the car idles a bit better, this is just my personal opinion, as the guys said above, it's all subjective and just running 98 octane might give you similar results.. A bottle of Neo costs about $14 and I am still on the first bottle after 5 months, personally i think it made a difference so I will keep using it.
    05' Megane 225 Cup

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    Injector cleaners, i'm told by a specialist shop, also increase the octan rating slightly. This makes people think that they actually work. Agree with ultrasonically cleaning is the only way - in my experience. I've wasted money on 3 different brands with no result.
    What does brakefluid in the combustion process do to the cat? Don't fancy doing it in my car without taking the cat out first.
    JoBo

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo
    Injector cleaners, i'm told by a specialist shop, also increase the octan rating slightly. This makes people think that they actually work. Agree with ultrasonically cleaning is the only way - in my experience. I've wasted money on 3 different brands with no result.
    What does brakefluid in the combustion process do to the cat? Don't fancy doing it in my car without taking the cat out first.
    JoBo
    Strangely enough, I thought the same but decided to give it a whirl due to the cat being suspect on this car anyway. We had all the classic symptoms; smell of "Saturday morning beer blossoms" everytime you backed off with the windows down, car wanting to stall occasionally on start up followed by the "K" light staying on until the car was switched off, restarted and revved.
    I put the brake fluid in, left it & then spun it with a rag over the plug holes and the plugs out before putting them back in and starting it. Sure it smoked, but only for a few metres and in reality we may have had at worst 50mls of fluid in the pots when started. If a car is using 500mls in say 1 - 2,000 klms, what's the difference?
    Since this was done, no more stalling, no "K" light showing and no more foul smells. Can't see that it did anything but good.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Personally, I've found injector cleaners about as effective as a p!$$ in the ocean and what on earth is he talking about? petrol having lubricating properties??
    If you have dirty nozzles, the only way is to remove them and have them ultra sonically cleaned.
    I recently did something to one of our cars that would make a lot of people's hair stand on end. It's a trick used in Europe to decoke engines and I suspect cleans plugs and nozzles at the same time and that is to drop a teaspoon full of brake fluid down each plug hole and leave overnight. It smokes like a train when you refit the plugs and restart the engine, but in our case it gave us what feels like about a 10% power boost, made the engine much more responsive and flexible and got rid of the crappy nappy smell from the exhaust so it definitely does something.
    The best bit is it only costs a few cents to do.
    The thing I get a bit wary of Spitfire and similar is that these days, our cars are all 10 years+ old and most have rarely if ever had the "O" rings replaced on teh nozzles and I have heard of a couple blowing the "O" rings either whilst having or just after having these oily additives in the p etrol with some fairly fiery results.


    Alan S
    no i dont think im gonna put brake fluid down the plugholes,as a non skilled car tinkerer your right it makes my very long hair stand on end just reading about it,the thing is cause i dont know enough about engines i aint gonna do it cause if somethin went wrong id be very pi***ed to say the least.
    the cars just been worked on ,the injectors cleaned with new tips/nozzles done about 4 mnths ago.and the petrol/engine additives question was for general maintanence info.although i have used petrol adds in the past
    i was of the opinion that leaded petrol had very small amouny of oil in it and that the newer premium and unleaded had some kinda lube additives non mineral oil derived.hence less poloution,seems i was wrong dont it.
    in my best pauline hanson voice -PLEASE EXPLAIN
    thanks for your time-BAZZ

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    That's fair enough but there is no reason to start pumping these cleaners (think methanol) down the system and risk splitting the O rings.
    This is what it looks like when you do; not pretty, in fact the pic doesn't do it justice as it looked 10 times worse than this in the flesh.

    Alan S
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 205 fuel additives/injector cleaner-mvc-003f.jpg  
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    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    That's fair enough but there is no reason to start pumping these cleaners (think methanol) down the system and risk splitting the O rings.
    This is what it looks like when you do; not pretty, in fact the pic doesn't do it justice as it looked 10 times worse than this in the flesh.

    Alan S
    I am a tinkerer and I love brake fluid. It tastes bad but it a great de greaser

    Uses it on my engine and even to clean out the engine bay. I lost a layer of paint and perhaps even a layer of my skin but its clean.

    Wonder if the brake fluid down the plug holes would work for my sisters smokey Jb Camira. I fear that nothing short of a miracle will help it though

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    The owner (an engineer) of Electroweld Engineering in Kealor (spelling?) had a 'wide' body Camry from new and sold it with 250 000 km. He put a few 100ml (forget exactley) of diesel into the tank every few (i think 5 000km). He maintained that this is as good or better than injector cleaners. Anyway, he had absolutley no problems with the cat during his ownership.
    However, with the Camry he had after that (spark plugs that need replacing after 100 000km he said not to use this procedure. A bit obscure for me.
    JoBo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shobbz
    I am a tinkerer and I love brake fluid. It tastes bad but it a great de greaser

    Uses it on my engine and even to clean out the engine bay. I lost a layer of paint and perhaps even a layer of my skin but its clean.

    Wonder if the brake fluid down the plug holes would work for my sisters smokey Jb Camira. I fear that nothing short of a miracle will help it though

    shobbz
    Let's put it this way; if it does it no good, it may not harm it.
    We had a Camira (parents car) several years back an it was a smoker but it turned out to be a head gasket believe it or not.
    The oil was leaking from where it drained from the top of the engine & was getting sucked into a couple of pots. Not hard to do the head gasket and remeove & replace the head, but what a maze of plumbing they've got on them... I have to say though, at over 120K klms it still had hone marks on the bore and after the head off job it went like the clappers.

    Alan S
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    Depends when it is smokey. My daughters '84 pulsar let go a big blue cloud of smoke especially after ideling at the lights and then taking off - embarassing.
    The compression an all cylinders turned out to be 160 psi +/- 1 psi.
    It was the no. 1 cylinder exhaust valve valvestem seal that came loose and broke. $2.75 and an hours work fixed it (i'm a slow worker).
    JoBo

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    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    That's fair enough but there is no reason to start pumping these cleaners (think methanol) down the system and risk splitting the O rings.
    This is what it looks like when you do; not pretty, in fact the pic doesn't do it justice as it looked 10 times worse than this in the flesh.

    Alan S
    OOOUUUUCCCHHH!!!!!!!!!!!,was that a mi 16 engine in the spot where a burnt out lookin sorta thing of a motor is?-BAZZ

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    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Let's put it this way; if it does it no good, it may not harm it.
    We had a Camira (parents car) several years back an it was a smoker but it turned out to be a head gasket believe it or not.
    The oil was leaking from where it drained from the top of the engine & was getting sucked into a couple of pots. Not hard to do the head gasket and remeove & replace the head, but what a maze of plumbing they've got on them... I have to say though, at over 120K klms it still had hone marks on the bore and after the head off job it went like the clappers.

    Alan S
    They do have pipes everywhere, but the front brakes are easier to work on that the pug ones.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it was the gasket or masses of oil leaking. The thihng uses at least 250ml a month, and i am sure that this is a conservative estimate.

    I still have to try the brake fluid, just have to get my sister to stop driving it everywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    OOOUUUUCCCHHH!!!!!!!!!!!,was that a mi 16 engine in the spot where a burnt out lookin sorta thing of a motor is?-BAZZ
    Yep, it's an Mi16/BX16V alright and FWIW, we have 2 that have done exactly the same thing and that one is the better of the two.


    Incidentally, it took about an hour to get that car sorted; hard to believe hey?


    Alan S
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    [Q UOTE=Alan S]Personally, I've found injector cleaners about as effective as a p!$$ in the oc ean and what on earth is he talking about? petrol having lubricating properties??
    If you have dirty nozzles, the only way is to remove them and have them ultra sonically cl eaned.
    I recently did something to one of our cars that would make a lot of people's hair stand on end. It's a trick used in Europe to decoke engines and I suspect cleans plugs and nozzles at the same time and that is to drop a teaspoon full of brake fluid down each plug hole and leave overnight. It smokes like a train when you refit the plugs and restart the engine, but in our case it gave us what feels like about a 10% power boost, made the engine much more responsive and flexible and got rid of the crappy nappy smell from the exhaust so it definitely does something.
    The best bit is it only costs a few cents to do.
    The thing I get a bit wary of Spitfire and similar is that these days, our cars are all 10 years+ old and most have rarely if ever had the "O" rings replaced on teh nozzles and I have heard of a couple blowing the "O" rings either whilst having or just after having these oily additives in the petrol with some fairly fiery results.


    A lan S [/QUOTE]
    according to the three mechanix i talked with on the week end,petrol does indeed have lubricating properties .old leaded petrol used a lead based lube,hence the term leaded petrol.
    the valves in my motor have signs of wear due to the premium petrol which does not use lead type lubes.you can buy an additive when using premium petrol to aleviate this.
    now before you jump up and down and start typing madly this is what ive been told not what i know.which is why ive posted the ?.
    i apreciate any input and like to consider all opinions so thanx for yours.
    -BAZZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    according to the three mechanix i talked with on the week end,petrol does indeed have lubricating properties .old leaded petrol used a lead based lube,hence the term leaded petrol.
    the valves in my motor have signs of wear due to the premium petrol which does not use lead type lubes.you can buy an additive when using premium petrol to aleviate this.
    now before you jump up and down and start typing madly this is what ive been told not what i know.which is why ive posted the ?.
    i apreciate any input and like to consider all opinions so thanx for yours.
    -BAZZ
    Engines designed to run on leaded petrol where metallurgically different. Unleaded engines not only have hardened valve seats, but they also have chromed stem valves and bronze guides. Older engines used to have valves running in cast iron. Chrome/bronze provides a far better co-effecient of friction, than steel/cast iron.

    '92 205 Mi16
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    Whoa boy; back up there; I'm not starting to "type madly" or anything like that but there's a big diff between "i was of the opinion that leaded petrol had very small amouny of oil in it and that the newer premium and unleaded had some kinda lube additives non mineral oil derived.hence less poloution,seems i was wrong dont it. " and lead in the petrol.

    Alan S
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    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Whoa boy; back up there; I'm not starting to "type madly" or anything like that but there's a big diff between "i was of the opinion that leaded petrol had very small amouny of oil in it and that the newer premium and unleaded had some kinda lube additives non mineral oil derived.hence less poloution,seems i was wrong dont it. " and lead in the petrol.

    Alan S
    yeah ,when i read back over what ive written i must admit it does seem all over the place.
    must have had one too many before writing that night.
    what im trying to say is that im trying to figure out whats goin on myself.sometimes mechanix give you an explanation that seems reasonable at the time but on further contemplation opens up other questions .
    three mechanix have so far shown me an additived to put in the fuel system[i think]for cars running premium leaded fuels and it was explained that they helped in lubrication as the premium type of petrols lacked in this area.
    im goin there 2moro so ill get the name of this stuff and you can comment on it.
    im really open to all opinions[which is a problem in itself sometimes]and do greatly appreciate any input ,
    the typing madly crack was more to do with relating that the opinion expressed was not that of the writer only of others asked in the last day or two and not to get offended and type madly in response as does happen at times .
    ok i was and am still of the opinion that leaded petrol has both oil and lead along with a variety of other minerals in its composition.
    please fell free to comment
    -BAZZ

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    So do you any of you know of a good place (or any place for that matter) to get the injectors ultrasonically cleaned?

    Oh yeah. In Melbourne.

    Thanks. Maca

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maca
    So do you any of you know of a good place (or any place for that matter) to get the injectors ultrasonically cleaned?

    Oh yeah. In Melbourne.

    Thanks. Maca
    Maca,

    Grab the Yellow Pages & as they say, let your fingers do the walking.
    These days it's not all that rare a job to get done nor is the equipment expensive, in fact at one stage we were seriously contemplating buying our own gear to do it.
    Peter T once posted a result sheet showing the diff between injectors as originally tested and after the ultra sonic cleaning which was very impressive. He may know where it is or alternatively re-post it as a guide to the effectiveness of the process.

    Alan S
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    We had a Camira (parents car) several years back an it was a smoker but it turned out to be a head gasket believe it or not.
    The oil was leaking from where it drained from the top of the engine & was getting sucked into a couple of pots. Not hard to do the head gasket and remeove & replace the head, but what a maze of plumbing they've got on them... I have to say though, at over 120K klms it still had hone marks on the bore and after the head off job it went like the clappers.
    The old GM Family One/Two was a pretty good engine, which is why I was happy for the missus to get a recent Astra. Nice engine, for sure...

    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    ...three mechanix have so far shown me an additived to put in the fuel system[i think]for cars running premium leaded fuels and it was explained that they helped in lubrication as the premium type of petrols lacked in this area...
    Bazz, the only 'lube' in leaded petrol was the tetra-ethyl lead, which had some 'lubricative' properties in allowing the valve to release from the seat (like butter does to a cake from the tin) and also coating some surfaces like the valve stem in a lead oxide which also had a similar effect. It doesn't have any extra 'oil' in it.

    Stuey

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    The ultra sonic cleaners... are they similar to the ones used in Jewelrey cleaners that can be bought from Jaycar & the like for $150?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nate
    The ultra sonic cleaners... are they similar to the ones used in Jewelrey cleaners that can be bought from Jaycar & the like for $150?
    Bingo!!

    But there are more sophisticated ones which needless to say work better proportionately to the price.
    We still may end up with one as my son looks as though he could be heading deeper into EFi/ECU systems as a business in which case it would get too much work to rely on the $150 version.

    Alan S
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