Oil Temperature for Mi16 on the track?
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  1. #1
    Cal
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    Default Oil Temperature for Mi16 on the track?

    Calling Peter T and other Mi16 S1 engine experts. I don't usually use the Mi16 on the track as I have the MX5 for that purpose. However, yesterday I took it out to Morgan Park for a track day. Previously I have only done short burst events in it like a hillclimb and a motorkhana. I therefore have never used prelonged high revs. On a hard run through the hills, I would rarely get the oil above 100-110 degrees. However on the track it wanted to climb higher. Once it got to 120 I would come in and let it cool down. Is that too high? I use Mobil 1 and the oil is fresh and up to the top of the dipstick. I was very happy indeed with the old girl on the track. Surprised a few Westfields (the club I was out with) believe it or not. Enjoyed it so much I will probably take it out more often. Hmmm think I will be needing a Peter T camshaft sooner than I thought.

    Cheers,

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    Cal.
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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Glad to hear you enjoyed it. What about the water temp?

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    Cal
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    Water temp didn't do anything. Sat at about 70-80.

    Cal.
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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Yes, that's too high. You need a dedicated oil cooler otherwise you'll spin a bearing, regardless of the oil you use. Big end #1, furthest from the pump, will die first.

    You also need a baffled sump. That's an even bigger priority. Otherwise, it's well and truely goodbye with a 16V head. I still make them on an exchange basis.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Cal
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    Thanks Peter. I knew a baffled sump would be a good idea. I don't imagine I could have done too much damage in an afternoon. Hope not anyhow.

    Cal.
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    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal
    Thanks Peter. I knew a baffled sump would be a good idea. I don't imagine I could have done too much damage in an afternoon. Hope not anyhow.

    Cal.
    I'm taking my Mi out on the track for one day next month and wondering what would be the oil temp I should be keeping it at. Don't have an oil cooler or baffled sump. I don't intend to drive it really hard but don't want to do a bearing either. Should I get a new dipstick for the day so I can keep measuring oil levels etc??

    Dave
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Shearer
    I'm taking my Mi out on the track for one day next month and wondering what would be the oil temp I should be keeping it at. Don't have an oil cooler or baffled sump. I don't intend to drive it really hard but don't want to do a bearing either. Should I get a new dipstick for the day so I can keep measuring oil levels etc??

    Dave
    An Mi16 with sticky tyres and no sump baffle = no bearings. You'll soon get carried away and forget about the oil pressure and temp.

    '92 205 Mi16
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    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    An Mi16 with sticky tyres and no sump baffle = no bearings. You'll soon get carried away and forget about the oil pressure and temp.
    What about 8 Valves? are they as prone to failing?



    Dave


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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    What about 8 Valves? are they as prone to failing?



    Dave
    Not as much, but the danger is still there on right handers. The 16V retains a lot more oil in the head due to the extra valves and hydraulic lifters.

    '92 205 Mi16
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    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    That would probably explain why on our other bx's (the ones that use oil) start to do thier beepy thing around round-abouts (right hand turn) when they get low on oil

    Glad mine doesn't use any.

    Dave


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    Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    An Mi16 with sticky tyres and no sump baffle = no bearings.
    When you say that, do you mean after a couple of years of track events or after one day? How would I know if I have damaged anything? I did probably 40 laps of which most of the corners are right handers. I was driving very hard, but not really reving the engine too high. Morgan Park is a momentum circuit. I rarely hit 7000rpm.

    Cal.
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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal
    When you say that, do you mean after a couple of years of track events or after one day? How would I know if I have damaged anything? I did probably 40 laps of which most of the corners are right handers. I was driving very hard, but not really reving the engine too high. Morgan Park is a momentum circuit. I rarely hit 7000rpm.

    Cal.
    One corner with no oil. Long RH sweepers are the worst. As Mi16's don't have an oil pressure guage it's hard to tell. On a 205 you can tell from the oil pressure, the difference between stuffed bearings and good ones.

    I'd just be making a baffle sump a priority. It's easy to change. While it's off you can inspect and/or replace the bearings.

    '92 205 Mi16
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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    That would probably explain why on our other bx's (the ones that use oil) start to do thier beepy thing around round-abouts (right hand turn) when they get low on oil
    Is that what it is? Didn't know that. I thought it was some suspension fault or something. It's only happened a couple of times on tight roundabouts.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Top up the oil brenno!!

    Assuming all the warning lights/beeps etc are the same in the 16V as in the tri and TZI. My GT is a little older so no annoying beep.



    Dave


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    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    One corner with no oil. Long RH sweepers are the worst. As Mi16's don't have an oil pressure guage it's hard to tell. On a 205 you can tell from the oil pressure, the difference between stuffed bearings and good ones.

    I'd just be making a baffle sump a priority. It's easy to change. While it's off you can inspect and/or replace the bearings.
    Hmmmmmm,

    I'm thinking of going to Winton or Calder park.
    So perhaps, I should just take it easy and keep checking the oil
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    Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    Long RH sweepers are the worst.
    Sounds like turn 1 at QR could be a problem. I highly doubt any damage was done the other day. There are 2X right hand 2nd gear corners that come back on themselves. You brake hard in a straight line, back to 2nd and into the corner, settle the car and back on it. They are tight and quite slow. You'd be back in a straight line before you even hit 5000rpm. I would have thought the engine would have to be reving hard to damage the bearings.

    How much are these exchange sumps?

    Cal.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal

    How much are these exchange sumps?
    $150. I'm not just trying to sell a sump either. It really is a problem. Every XU9 competition engine I know that's run without a baffle and/or proper oil cooling has failed. Matt205 is the latest. His alternator failed because of the conrod jammed in it.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Cal
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    Oh wouldn't think you were for a second. At that price you are hardly going to get rich selling a couple a year to some punters on Froggy.

    So how would I know if I've damaged my bearings? Wouldn't it get rattly in the bottom end? You'd hear it no?

    Cal.
    Last edited by Cal; 13th August 2004 at 05:28 PM.
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    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    When I pulled my engine apart to do the rebuild the bearings in my engine were absolutely rooted. I have no idea how bad they were before I did 1 track day but they were definately very second hand after it.

    A baffled sump makes all the difference. No such problems now.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal
    So how would I know if I've damaged my bearings? Wouldn't it get rattly in the bottom end? You'd hear it no?
    If you can here it, you've damaged the crank. If you can't, you can probably save it by fitting new bearings.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  21. #21
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYT205
    When I pulled my engine apart to do the rebuild the bearings in my engine were absolutely rooted. I have no idea how bad they were before I did 1 track day but they were definately very second hand after it.

    A baffled sump makes all the difference. No such problems now.
    How would this have affected the J4RS engine? It's temps stayed fairly normal when we were at Wakefield that day. Should we be checking the bearings?

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    How would this have affected the J4RS engine? It's temps stayed fairly normal when we were at Wakefield that day. Should we be checking the bearings?
    The XU10J4 engines have baffled sumps.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    mine went a little while ago at a motorkhana, the slippers on #1 (i think thats the cam belt end) were melted to the crank. after six hard runs with no break, a baffle with a leaky flap, no oil cooler, and a little less oil than i should have had, the whole engine siezed when i pushed the clutch in.
    all that is now fixed, with the exception of the oil cooler.
    now this is the part where you give me suggestions about what oil cooler to fit, and how.

    i was thinking of mounting it the same way i was going to do my r12 cooler. mount it on a bracket in front of the battery and have an intake vent above it in the bonnet. this would be in the second bonnet, as the road going bonnet has no vents or pins. or is it much simpler and easier to mount it to the radiator?


  24. #24
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    The XU10J4 engines have baffled sumps.
    Thanks Peter.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3006882

    i was thinking of mounting it the same way i was going to do my r12 cooler. mount it on a bracket in front of the battery and have an intake vent above it in the bonnet. this would be in the second bonnet, as the road going bonnet has no vents or pins. or is it much simpler and easier to mount it to the radiator?
    I'd just get it in some clean air flow, in front of the radiator. If you don't have an AC condensor there should be plenty of room.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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