PRV V6 Dyno Shootout Charts and Facts
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
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    Default PRV V6 Dyno Shootout Charts and PHOTO of TTV6

    For the doubters of what can be done with the humble PRV V6 see the attached dyno sheets for some interesting results. With no disrespect to Nisspug who has given himself a big challenge its not necessary to look beyond standard PRV V6s if you want serious power.

    The blue 505 150.8 KW at the wheels has a standard PRV 2664cc the only deviation from standard 604 is head porting, it even has standard 604 pug cams. It has a single T04 and early Supra intercooler. It runs on LP gas only via a GRA carburettor. Now 150kw at the wheels translates to between say 200kw to 230 kw at the flywheel. This car at Winton raceway could comfortably reel in a 255kw Commodore ute. The part owner of this car is another AF member who may 'out' himself.

    The red 505 is a standard Volvo 2850cc V6 except for porting, also on gas but bigger intercooler, has two TDO4L WRX blowers and has 178KW at the wheels. The relates to 240 to 270kw at the flywheel and this car can hold station with 300 kw Commodores.

    The engine you see to the left under my name flamed out at a tragically low 98kw at the wheels (130 to 150 at flywheel) when the mixture got to 15.5:1, way to lean and engine damage likely, I'll rejet the webers and rerun on the dyno.

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    Last edited by OddFireV6; 10th August 2004 at 04:47 PM. Reason: Add Twin Turbo Photo
    OddfireV6
    504 V6 24V, 203

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    thank you for taking the time to put those charts up

    it just shows that with a little work these engines produce some nice results

    can't wait till i finish the engine here and stick it into the 604

    it will have the heads ported a little and 2850 cams in place with 2850 pots sitting in it

    it will just have a standard exhaust for now and a 40/40weber sitting on top and it will still have an auto behind it but once it is run in i will be sticking the water injection back on it and advance the timing again

    then i can get back to putting the twin sway bar setup under the front of the car

    it's not going to be a sports car but we do want it to be what a 604 should have been from day one and that is a car that has enough power to motivate it with a bit more ease and the go through corners without rolling like a boat on the high seas

    just a pity it has to stay auto for the time bieng
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=OddFireV6]For the doubters of what can be done with the humble PRV V6 see the attached dyno sheets for some interesting results. With no disrespect to Nisspug who has given himself a big challenge its not necessary to look beyond standard PRV V6s if you want serious power.

    The blue 505 150.8 KW at the wheels has a standard PRV 2664cc the only deviation from standard 604 is head porting, it even has standard 604 pug cams. It has a single T04 and early Supra intercooler. It runs on LP gas only via a GRA carburettor. Now 150kw at the wheels translates to between say 200kw to 230 kw at the flywheel. This car at Winton raceway could comfortably reel in a 255kw Commodore ute. The part owner of this car is another AF member who may 'out' himself.

    QUOTE]
    Thanks for posting this Oddfire. There have been a few hints in previous threads obout the owner of this Blue 505. ( I don't think all your pictures worked) See below for pictures of car and dyno graph. This is the car myself and a friend have been putting together for about 4 months using spare bits both of us had accumulated in our garages over a number of years. It hasn't been too expensive and if you put a dollar value on it we haven't even reached $4K and this includes the cost of the car. As mentioned by Oddfire the car was Dynoed a week ago and produced 150kw at the wheels. While at the dyno we heard about a fun day at Winton the following day. So back home to get the car ready and off to Winton we went. We completed about 40 laps between us and the car ran faultlessly all day. I was absolutely wrapped with the performance of the car and as mentioned was more than a match for a lot of the other cars. Power oversteer in third and forth gears with R tyres certainly puts a smile on your face. Our next step is to sort out the suspension and brakes as these are now the week points in the car. It's amazing what a bit of power can do. See photos below and I hope to gets some good photo's when we go to Sandown next month.

    Jarrod
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PRV V6 Dyno Shootout Charts and Facts-505_engbay.jpg   PRV V6 Dyno Shootout Charts and Facts-505-dyno3.jpg   PRV V6 Dyno Shootout Charts and Facts-505-dynograph.jpg  

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    thanks for those Charts... i wish i had a spendable amount of capital i coudl throw at my pug for such a adventure.. the drive train worries scare me tho..

    You have me very envious..

    Hmmm might as well just get a Cheap lump to play with until i have enough to get gearbox's addapted..

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie
    thanks for those Charts... i wish i had a spendable amount of capital i coudl throw at my pug for such a adventure.. the drive train worries scare me tho..

    You have me very envious..

    Hmmm might as well just get a Cheap lump to play with until i have enough to get gearbox's addapted..
    Drive train is bullet proof if the car is not abused' ie burnouts and rollbacks. Gearboxes are the weak point in pugs but they do not break because of the power. It is usually worn out syncros or the steel clips breaking off and causing havoc or stuffed bearings. ie the same problems you have with the 2l 505.

    Jarrod

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    sorry.. yes.. gearbox i was refering to when talking about drive train wholisticlly..

    how strong are those Auto box's?? they do bolt up no??
    Last edited by bowie; 9th August 2004 at 11:44 AM.

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie
    sorry.. yes.. gearbox i was refering to when talking about drive train wholisticlly..

    Who strong are those Auto box's?? they do bolt up no??
    The Trimatic autos from a 604 can be beefed up significantly and do last quite well. The red V6 referred to in Oddfires post above ran with an auto for years although only in single turbo format. Several were destroyed during this time but I am not sure if they had been strengthened on not. Last time I checked for about $1k you could get a Trimatic beefed up and stall converter modified for higher stall. Oddfire currently runs an auto in his V6 turbo 505 so he may be able to shed more light. The way it is driven also has fair bit to do with how long they last.

    Jarrod

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    The way it is driven also has fair bit to do with how long they last.
    just like any other box.. indeedy that be true..

    hmm ok then . Thank You..

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    Congratulations, amazing stuff. Lets just say this frog is EXTREAMLY GREEN with envy.

    Inspiration to clean out the shed should we say....... (just have to get a better shed)

    Jono
    1989 BX16Valve

    "Resting" 1983 505 STi

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
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    The trimatic in my 505 had a $450 rebuild 8 years ago, it has been in my turbo petrol 504 and now the 505 gas turbo, I have done a number of naughty things with this sludgebox, rear tyres do not last so well if you follow my drift, its been used in motorsport. After a big launch the thud into second gear is pure joy. If you change the oil and filter regularly they last well and are in any case cheap to buy or rebuild.

    The failures referred to above occured when the vacuum modulator did not have a compensator for boost which mine now has, also the red 505 talked about did many miles and has always produced mighty horsepower. On road tyres with a standard auto it did 2min 6sec laps at Philip Island using the single turbo now in Jarrods car.

    There are of course shortcomings with them like the clamping in 3 gear not being strong enough and the fact that the modulator controls line pressure and kick down.
    OddfireV6
    504 V6 24V, 203

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=jarrods]
    Quote Originally Posted by OddFireV6
    For the doubters of what can be done with the humble PRV V6 see the attached dyno sheets for some interesting results. With no disrespect to Nisspug who has given himself a big challenge its not necessary to look beyond standard PRV V6s if you want serious power.

    The blue 505 150.8 KW at the wheels has a standard PRV 2664cc the only deviation from standard 604 is head porting, it even has standard 604 pug cams. It has a single T04 and early Supra intercooler. It runs on LP gas only via a GRA carburettor. Now 150kw at the wheels translates to between say 200kw to 230 kw at the flywheel. This car at Winton raceway could comfortably reel in a 255kw Commodore ute. The part owner of this car is another AF member who may 'out' himself.

    QUOTE]
    Thanks for posting this Oddfire. There have been a few hints in previous threads obout the owner of this Blue 505. ( I don't think all your pictures worked) See below for pictures of car and dyno graph. This is the car myself and a friend have been putting together for about 4 months using spare bits both of us had accumulated in our garages over a number of years. It hasn't been too expensive and if you put a dollar value on it we haven't even reached $4K and this includes the cost of the car. As mentioned by Oddfire the car was Dynoed a week ago and produced 150kw at the wheels. While at the dyno we heard about a fun day at Winton the following day. So back home to get the car ready and off to Winton we went. We completed about 40 laps between us and the car ran faultlessly all day. I was absolutely wrapped with the performance of the car and as mentioned was more than a match for a lot of the other cars. Power oversteer in third and forth gears with R tyres certainly puts a smile on your face. Our next step is to sort out the suspension and brakes as these are now the week points in the car. It's amazing what a bit of power can do. See photos below and I hope to gets some good photo's when we go to Sandown next month.

    Jarrod
    Hi Jarrod,

    I'm BC's cousin. I saw you guys get 150 ATW. Nice work. ALso heard about Winton last Sunday. Looking good. Might see you down there in October with my Mi,
    cheers
    Dave
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  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    2:06 at the Island?

    That's fairly rocking... about the same time I did with my Hustler about 29 years ago...

    Of course, the circuit has been shortened and it's a lot better in the surface, but still commendable (in a big way...) for a road car!

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Janek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OddFireV6
    For the doubters of what can be done with the humble PRV V6 see the attached dyno sheets for some interesting results. With no disrespect to Nisspug who has given himself a big challenge its not necessary to look beyond standard PRV V6s if you want serious power.

    Oddfire, i have been tossing up which engine to use for a v6 conversion for quite some time now (as we all may know)... i have recently acquired a 504 auto (it is a borg-warner, for the record) in reasonable condition with some rust here and there (nothing that a sandblaster and a bit of a weld cant fix). now, i am seriously having some issues for what engine to use.

    while i respect and envy you, and all of the other modified high hp v6's, i have never been a fan of gas (a large part of it is the loss of boot space), so i'd like something running off petrol. i'd also like soem serious hp, and modifications are not really such an issue. with lots of careful thinking, planning, and the usual brain-steaming, i have come up with the result that, like nisspug, an sr20 conversion would give me the hp i am after stock, has plenty of bolt on aftermarket mods, is relatively easy to pull mega serious hp from in the future, and is still a 4 cyl 2.0L, thereby (at least with what ive seen) having less fuel consumption than the v6 (keep in mind i will be running petrol).

    its all still up in the air, i have a good 3-4 months before i get started on reefing out the stock engine and box, the v6 has always appealed to me, but i think in the long run, it will be easier to do an sr conversion (even though it'll be ugly jap)...

    i am torn, i like pug, and dont want to taint it, i like the v6, would love to be able to get around emission controls (possible in an early v6, not in an sr)...

    so i guess long story short, what's your opinion of the faesability of either? i know a fair few people have discussed this in my 504 v6 conversion post, but i thought id do some more research before i head into a 3500 dollar engine package (a 604 v6 and bits is hard to find and expensive in sydney, and have been having trouble with the volvo v6)...

    also, seeing that i am starting to lean toward a v6, any ideas wherei can get my hands on a mild volvo v6 cam, etc? and finally, turbos. how hard, how, where, etc...

    (tell me to foff is you cant be bothered dealing with me anymore...)

    cheers
    Janek

    P.S. excuse the essay post

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    crosspug.. thats it.. lets go shoping for some old volvo's

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

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    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    2:06 at the Island?

    That's fairly rocking... about the same time I did with my Hustler about 29 years ago...

    Of course, the circuit has been shortened and it's a lot better in the surface, but still commendable (in a big way...) for a road car!
    That time was with an auto and one turbo. It is now a manual and has twin turbos and I'm pretty sure the times are now under 2 mins. This car is a real weapon on the track but it must be getting close to reaching its limitations if it remains a road car

    Jarrod

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    The twin turbo 505 V6 in the hands of its very capable driver, not me by the way, now does 1 min 58 sec on 205/60*15 Yokahama A032. For those not in the know this is seriously fast for a road car at Philip Is. My 504 2850 V6 manual before the Webers so with 604 carbs does 2min 8 sec.

    Janek
    I suggest you look at all my V6 engine related posts and pose specific questions to which I can give answers based on first hand experience. Any comment I make is carefully considered so read carefully. With the greatest of respect to Nisspug fitting an engine that is completely foreign to a car makes it hard (not impossible) to get a fully serviceable, reliable and neat result. To get such an arrangement to be both fast and aesthetically pleasing can also be more difficult to achieve. If the engine and trans all bolts in you can concentrate on the quality of your work, modifications to the engine and the detail which makes conversions truly reliable and therefore overall a positive experience. Its also easier to get engineering compliance.

    I’ve told you this once before so listen this time, 2850 block 604 heads, Crow CAMS performance Volvo grind for non turbo. For a turbo setup any standard Volvo 2850 Turbos from John Verban, Adelaide, do a search on his name. I’m using 2* Garret T28s from a Nissan RB26 motor (Godzilla) $250 each.

    QED use a V6.
    OddfireV6
    504 V6 24V, 203

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    crosspug.. thats it.. lets go shoping for some old volvo's

    Volvo Engine

    Thats the right type isn't it??

    As much as I'd love the tyre lighting FUN of a TT V6 505, I'd probably head for the N9TE thats for sale on here. (If I had the spare cash)

    Just to be different (ish) not that a TT V6 or even T V6 isn't different

    Jono
    1989 BX16Valve

    "Resting" 1983 505 STi

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
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    Quote (oddfire, sorry about the hastles, but what i need to know now is if the 2850 volvo multi point injection engine is suitable as a base? (still go the 604 heads etc). and am i to assume that the injection is not to be used, from memory 604's are carb... (im assuming here that the manifolds for the volvo dont bolt straight on)...

    i have no experience with these engines, and just want to make sure i at least buy the right block... ideally, a year range is what im after i guess... and that v6 on ebay, is that what im after by any chance?

    cheers
    Janek Un Quote

    Janek I will persist since you appear to be a fan of the work of Juan Samaranch Antonio.
    If you use any part of an even fire B280 you should use the entire B280. The B280 heads have a number of advantages over oddfire heads but you cannot use 604 carbs or conventional ignition. Now did you read all my old posts? If you did you will already know the differences, manifold issues and etc.

    There are no right or wrong blocks, you need to determine what end point you are after then work back to which is the most suitable and affordable, be wary of corroded Volvo blocks. For EFI go the evenfire, for gas or carbs the older cheaper oddfires will do fine.

    I donít know anything about the engine on EBAY.

    Can I respectfully suggest that you will get a greater value from answers where you input greater value into the question. That is make the effort to absorb and understand the info already on this site and compose clear questions. I look forward to your next question which I expect will be specific, detailed and insightful.

    See the new photo in my original post.
    OddfireV6
    504 V6 24V, 203

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    Fellow Frogger! Janek's Avatar
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    ok, the ebay engine is "Volvo B28E V6 Engine" apparently the dude has spent some time rebuilding it, btu has stopped for some reason. if i end up going down this path, i will do a complete top to bottom rebuild myself, and hopefully doing any mods internally that i will be needing to.

    dont count this as my next question, as it has little thought in it, and i was just filling you in on the details.

    the ebay item number is 2486475747 in case you are interested.

    ill get back to you soon with the question... there will be many, but i have much reading to do

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    As much as I'd love the tyre lighting FUN of a TT V6 505, I'd probably head for the N9TE thats for sale on here. (If I had the spare cash)
    Dito didto and dito..

    im just scared that if i melt a Head gasket .. the next closest replacment is in france or america..

    mmm $100 for that V6.. why havent i bid on it..

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

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  21. #21
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Just wondering,

    is it any trouble to fit a V6 into a 504 and have aircon and power steering also?
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

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    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Janek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie
    Dito didto and dito..

    im just scared that if i melt a Head gasket .. the next closest replacment is in france or america..

    mmm $100 for that V6.. why havent i bid on it..
    somethings sus about it, thats why... if he has spent so much money on it rebuilding it, why only 100 dollar start price? i think ill stick to more reliable sources... sad to say

  23. #23
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janek
    somethings sus about it, thats why... if he has spent so much money on it rebuilding it, why only 100 dollar start price? i think ill stick to more reliable sources... sad to say

    why the price you ask ?

    well it has only had gaskets and the timing chains replaced in it

    the bloke did some work cleaning all the block out and replacing the worn camshaft and a rocker or two from another engine but basically the engine hasn't been rebuilt so $100 is right for it then maybe even $200 but no more in my books

    he will gladly tell you he has spent over $600 on parts to rebuild it though but that's the price you pay for dealing with a dealer i suppose
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! Janek's Avatar
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    true, true, i might email the guy and chat to him about it... it may be a viable choice for my 504, but ill need some input from you mob... will let you all know of the details

  25. #25
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janek
    true, true, i might email the guy and chat to him about it... it may be a viable choice for my 504, but ill need some input from you mob... will let you all know of the details

    that was the gist of the convo i had with him earlier tonight

    for what he has spent on parts you can put more into it and end up with a better engine

    the parts for these engines are not very expensive when you shop around and for around the $500 mark you can have all the new parts including gaskets,rings,bearings,chains, so add the price of an engine to it from a wrecker and maybe a little head work and you come out with a nice engine
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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