Any ideas on hotting up my 205 GTi?
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Icon5 Any ideas on hotting up my 205 GTi?

    New to my car and to this site, i am looking to crank my 90' S1/2? 205GTi up a bit just for fun. Apart from dropping another motor in, can anyone please tell me what things i can do to increase its performance. I am willing to spend a few grand so give us the low down if u can. I don't have much of a clue about technical aspects of the car, but am learning as i go, so this is why i need the advice. could it handle whacking a turbo on? Cheers people

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    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Go for a search of 205GTI on this site or anything written by Peter T or MYT 205 on here and you will be on the right track. You will not have to look very hard to find good, relevant info on modding 205 GTI.
    '56 Renault 750 (16TS Power)
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    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    In my opinion, a value for money road registered 205GTI would have 130-140hp, 160-170Nm and the low sprint gearing of the series 1 gearbox.

    Those power and torque figures are fairly easly achievable, by taking the advice laid out in posts made by PeterT and others aswell as checking out the Puma racing website:

    http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/pug2058v.htm

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  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott205
    New to my car and to this site, i am looking to crank my 90' S1/2? 205GTi up a bit just for fun. Apart from dropping another motor in, can anyone please tell me what things i can do to increase its performance. I am willing to spend a few grand so give us the low down if u can. I don't have much of a clue about technical aspects of the car, but am learning as i go, so this is why i need the advice. could it handle whacking a turbo on? Cheers people
    go to this site:

    www.autodecals.com

    look for a "type R" sticker, should increase performance drammatically, just ask shobbz he can vouch for that..
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    I would up the Compression. Have the head flowed and ported and ask Peter T about a cam to suit. I have this on my 205 and its quite nice. A bit raw with the high compression but you just have to deal with it.
    Cam
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    Fellow Frogger! matt205's Avatar
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    Limited Slip or Torque Biasing Diff, and some advanced driver training......
    Regards,
    Matt
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    "Imagine watching the entire French Air-Force crash into a fireworks factory. That's how much fun this car is."

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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt205
    Limited Slip or Torque Biasing Diff, and some advanced driver training......
    A diff drains a bit of power from the wheels Matt.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! matt205's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca
    A diff drains a bit of power from the wheels Matt.
    Pahh,

    The gains in traction off the line alone would negate any power loss, on nice twisty road or circuit the gains are even greater.

    I think you missed my point anyway Luca, HP is nothing if you can't drive it well.
    Regards,
    Matt
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    "Imagine watching the entire French Air-Force crash into a fireworks factory. That's how much fun this car is."

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    The 1.6L GTi head I have for sale is an excellent budget bolt on. That should be your starting point. That together with a mild cam will have you rocketing.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    Peter, can you post information without trying to sell something? It seems that is what most of your posts are about these days.
    I see the forum as being about information exchange. How do you see it?


    Scott, your car is good for a relatively easy 50 bhp more. That's what I got .
    Don't ask a Peugeot dealer to do stuff for you cos its not up their alley. PM me for more info.
    You need a fancy cam grind. Wades in Melbourne will do a 162B for you for a few hundred. It's a good cam. Needs a wider exhaust system, incorporating a generic Cat. 2 1/4 inch is plenty. Get iit made, don't buy a name brand muffler!!!!
    It won't need bigger injectors, just an FSE power boost valve (or if you can get a local variable fuel pressure regulator that will be much cheaper).
    A straight air filter is of benefit in a 205. The head needs port work, bigger inlet valves and a better shaped combustion chamber, with more compression.
    I can send you pics of mine if you want.
    If you go throttle bodies, well that would be cool, but relatively expensive, and that would be the ultimate bring-it-all-together bit, that I would leave until the other stuff is fixed up.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warwick
    Peter, can you post information without trying to sell something? It seems that is what most of your posts are about these days.
    I see the forum as being about information exchange. How do you see it?
    No, not really. I see the 1.6 GTi head as a giant leap forward compared to a modified DFZ head. It has the longer 108mm valves which allow a much better port entry. The chambers are already small. You could spend a lot of money porting and flowing a crappy DFZ casting, or just put this on. The extra for 3 angle seat work, is just that, extra. I'm not making any money on it. It makes a huge difference. I'm just trying to give the guy a head start.

    Sure, I've got a bit of stuff for sale at the moment. There will be more to come soon. Take it or leave it.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  12. #12
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Warwick; can you post on this forum without constantly trying to put Peter or anyone else down?

    I have a feeling you've never been told you are a whingeing pain in the arse; perhaps someone should tell you that some day.
    Most here have been helped by Peter at some stage; but you? All we get is complaints and sarcasm along with the odd stir that interests nobody apart from pumping up your ego.
    Do us all a favour; get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!



    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt205
    Pahh,

    The gains in traction off the line alone would negate any power loss, on nice twisty road or circuit the gains are even greater.

    I think you missed my point anyway Luca, HP is nothing if you can't drive it well.
    Dude I think u should put your car on a dynapack and see for your self.....

    And Peter, W & Alan... it is what it is..... let it go guys.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! matt205's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca
    Dude I think u should put your car on a dynapack and see for your self.....
    I couldn't give a flying rats ringbit what the dyno says, the 3+ seconds per lap on a race track tells the real story, and I'd be willing to wager that the quater mile times would be unchanged or improved thanks to the off the line traction. Dyno sheets are such a small part of the picture but seem to get the most attention.

    If I re-read the subject of the thread it talks about "hotting up my 205" why does this always seem to translate to big valves and cam shafts? Pugs are primarily about corners, just like any real drivers car, if HP is the only goal why are any of us driving Pugs? My point is to look at the whole package not just engine, handling, braking and most importantly Driver.

    I've stated before that I've tried most forms of modifications for 205's and the single best performance gain I ever made was fiitting the $900 AP ATB diff closely followed by tyres, this measured by lap times not a dyno.


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    Regards,
    Matt
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  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Getcha hand off it matt

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    Come on guys. Keep it civil.

    Or else I'm going to have to start deleting some posts.

    TAKE NOTICE !!!

    Darren

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! matt205's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca
    Getcha hand off it matt
    Come on Luca you can do better than that. Hey I'm willing to concede your point about a (minimal) HP loss on a Dyno, but for real world performance a diff is one of the best mods you can make to a 205.

    Discussion is great and everyone can have there own opinion, don't end it with such a pointless comment, gotta go need to switch hands
    Regards,
    Matt
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    "Imagine watching the entire French Air-Force crash into a fireworks factory. That's how much fun this car is."

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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt205
    Come on Luca you can do better than that. Hey I'm willing to concede your point about a (minimal) HP loss on a Dyno, but for real world performance a diff is one of the best mods you can make to a 205.

    Discussion is great and everyone can have there own opinion, don't end it with such a pointless comment, gotta go need to switch hands
    I have to agree with Matt, to a certain extent, but not the bit about changing hands.

    On the track, the biggest improvements on a 205 come from tyres, LSD and torsion bars (not necessarily in that order).

    On the road however, those mods are rarely pushed to their limits and most people see a bit more hp as better value. Once beyond the traffic lights however, and out on the twisty stuff.........I'd prefer 75kW with the 3 mods above.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  19. #19
    Tadpole
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    Default Thanks a bunch people!

    Gee what a wicked surprise thanks to everyone who has replied so far! u r a passionate bunch no doubt about it, it almost like these french cars are turning u all into a bunch of emotional continentals! great stuff life is passion and there's plenty of it here.

    regards to peter T and ur last post, u reckon getting on the LSD and going for a drive, could well improve things but I'm not into that stuff! Nah know what u mean.

    I am pretty much looking for power, then handling but not sure i would fiddle with the diff, perhaps torsion bars though...
    With all these mods to cams/heads/etc. i'm told it makes the idling lumpy. Any downsides to these mods?

    ANybody got much experience in chipping?

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott205
    With all these mods to cams/heads/etc. i'm told it makes the idling lumpy. Any downsides to these mods?

    ANybody got much experience in chipping?
    With a mild cam, it will be hard to pick the change in idle. You need to make it idle at 1000 anyway. It will be a lot happier.

    There's no real downside if you use a grind like the 90kW/130hp cam, or slightly bigger. Fuel consumption will be worse if you use the extra power, but otherwise the same. The O2 sensor will take care of this.

    In regards to chips, there are none to speak of in the 75kW L-Jetronic ECU. The mixtures are controlled by resistor values. As Warwick said though, all you'll need is an adj. fuel regulator (eg Malpassi). I also have a resistor change trick for the ECU which I'm happy to pass on.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Matt it's simple physics... a diff that drives 2 wheels at the same time & speed requires more power than one that drives the wheel with the most traction. Matt stop it or you'll go blind!!

    Scott the down sides are that you loose the every day driveability of the car as it gets "hotter".

    PeterT forgot to mention that if you throw a mild cam in the 205 it'll do nothing unless you couple that with a little more compression.

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! casnell's Avatar
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    Speaking of diff's is anyone putting in group orders in the near future- I agree that's what mine needs...
    Chris

  23. #23
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    I think you have missed the biggest advantage of a LSD. It means that you will not blow the sun gears in a standard diff centre when you do eventually get more power from the engine. I agree 100% with Matt, Diff number one and best modification. I have a plenty of blown 205 gearbox cases sitting in the shed from the sun gears in the standard diff letting go and the standard diffs are only getting older and have more kilometres on them.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    I'm gonna lend you guys my book on Physics....

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! matt205's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca
    Matt it's simple physics... a diff that drives 2 wheels at the same time & speed requires more power than one that drives the wheel with the most traction. I'm gonna lend you guys my book on Physics....
    I think I conceded your point Luca, no-one is going to disagree with about a power loss (albiet a negligable one). But please correct me if I'm wrong with the standard diff the power will go to the wheel with the LEAST amount of traction hence why they'll spin the inside wheel under hard cornering. An ATB diff will do just the opposite and an LSD will distribute power as evenly as possible.

    I quote: "A standard or "open" differential is designed to allow a pair of drive wheels to operate at different (differential) speeds. This commonly occurs whenever the vehicle goes around a curve or corner. This type of differential will only transmit as much power to the wheels as the wheel with the LEAST traction can use. On slick surfaces this means that just having one of the two wheels lose traction will cause neither wheel to be effective at applying power to the ground."

    I guess the fact that ALL race cars run LSD's of some description or another lends credence to your point though.....
    Last edited by matt205; 15th July 2004 at 02:36 PM.
    Regards,
    Matt
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    "Imagine watching the entire French Air-Force crash into a fireworks factory. That's how much fun this car is."

    Jeremy Clarkson - talking about the V6 Clio
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