XU9J4 (BX/405) vs XU10J4 (Xsara VTS/GTI6)
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Thread: XU9J4 (BX/405) vs XU10J4 (Xsara VTS/GTI6)

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Default XU9J4 (BX/405) vs XU10J4 (Xsara VTS/GTI6)

    Hi guys i'm just interested in the differences and similarities of these engines. Do the Xu10's still have the same style exhaust manifold with the 8 pipes like the XU9. Does anyone have any photos of XU9J4 (160hp/148hp) and XU10J4RS (the 166hp version).
    Also what is the difference between the ~100Kw version (as found in the Xantia 2L 16V and the 124Kw version??
    I would love to see some photos of the combustion chambers, and the ports for these engines, as well as the inlet and exhaust manifolds. If anyone had a workshop manual for either online that would be great also.


    Dave

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    Last edited by Dave; 4th July 2004 at 06:27 PM.


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    these are very similiar engines from what i've interpreted and corect me if im wrong here but the xu10 was used in the puegeot 206 WRC, and the Xsara up until last year when its homogulation ran out, and the reason for peugeot moveng to the 307 was about homogulating new parts for both peugeot and citroen and of course the older(new) xu9 based engine. from what i have read it is quite easy to swap parts between an xu9 and xu10 engine, and this is why peugeot and citroen went to this engine so as they did not have to develop a new engine. this of course is only what i've read and understood i might be slightly off track. i read a lot about this when i was trying to work out why peugeot and citroen went to an earlier engine this year
    Last edited by orestes; 4th July 2004 at 06:34 PM.

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    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    I'm sure the 166hp XU10 version is very similar internally to the original 160hp XU9 engine, i'm just wondering what the major differences between the 100kw and 124kw XU10 is. I notice that on our xantia the exhaust manifold looks more like an 8 valve item - just 4-2-1 not 8 pipes like the original BX/405 16V engines. I'm guessing for the higher output XU10's they still have the funky exhaust manifold?

    Once again i would greatly appreciate photos of any of these engines

    Dave


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    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    another thing that i was thinking of just now is that the xu9j4 was an alloy block and the xuj104 was an iron block the xu10j4 is also 2l vs the smaller xu9j4 but thats just the two MI16 variations oh there was also a DOHC variation in the M16
    Last edited by orestes; 4th July 2004 at 07:29 PM.

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    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    I'm aware of that mate. The Xu9J4 is a wet liner alloy block with 83mm bore and 88 stroke, where as the XU10J4 is a square engine at 86x86 and has a solid iron block and alloy head.

    I know all of the specs like that, what i am really interested in is what the actual combustion chambers and ports look like on the various heads, i want to know if the 100kw engines still have the same ports and valves as the more powerful engines. I think the 124kw engines have 11.1 compression ratio compared to 10.4:1 for the XU9 and the xantia Xu10.
    Thanks for replying mate,

    Dave


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    just an idea, maybe you should ask somone like peter t he would probably know

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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    just an idea, maybe you should ask somone like peter t he would probably know
    The head is about the only similarity between an XU9J4 and an XU10J4. It's almost identical. Everthing else is very different. Although the oil pump is the same (but not the sprocket!). The XU10J4RS head is different again. It has 7mm guides instead of 8mm. The XU10J4 has a different exhaust manifold with a different stud pattern. It's a double walled stainless fabrication, unlike the XU9J4 which is tubular. The XU10J4RS is tuned length tubular.

    206 WRC had XU9 engines, not XU10.

    As for compression differences, I'm not sure. XU10J4 is definitely 10.4:1. I don't think the Xantia had an XU10J4 though. Isn't it an EWwhatever?

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    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Hi Peter,
    I am absolutely positive our 97 Xantia 16v is an XU10J4.

    C5's definately have the EW engines.

    So what i'm interested to know is what is different between the 100kw XU10J4 from the 124kW XU10J4RS, obviously the intake and exhaust manifold are different, and as you mentioned the guides thinner, cams obviously, but overall the head should be pretty much the same then??

    Dave


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    Hi Peter,
    I am absolutely positive our 97 Xantia 16v is an XU10J4.

    C5's definately have the EW engines.

    So what i'm interested to know is what is different between the 100kw XU10J4 from the 124kW XU10J4RS, obviously the intake and exhaust manifold are different, and as you mentioned the guides thinner, cams obviously, but overall the head should be pretty much the same then??

    Dave
    Could well be. The XU10J4 as fitted to the S2 Mi16 and S16 is 116kW. I didn't realise there was a 100kW version as well.

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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Yeah, i think the code for it is XU10J4R. The Xantia 16V got the XU10J4 (155hp or so) from 1993-1995 then from 1995-2000 got the XU10J4R which has only ~100kW, strange that they decided to go backwards, i'm interested to know what is different between these two engines.


    Dave


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    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    The 100kw XU10 engine only revs to 6,000rpm, however the 124kw one revs to 7,000rpm. This alone could account for much of the increase. I'm sure howeer that there are physical differences which allow it to keep producing torque all the way to 7,000rpm, hence the higher power output.
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    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Yeah, i know the high power ones are supposed to have a really nice light and balanced crank etc. So maybe the head is practically the same and they just use bigger cams, and better manifolds to get the more revs and power.

    Are you coming to uq this year for the FCD Brad?

    Dave

    Edit: I just did a little research and Brad is right the XU10J4R makes its power lower, at 5500rpm in fact, and its power is only 98kw.
    Where as the early engine made 112kW at 6500rpm

    Does anyone know where i could find the valve sizes for these engies, i know the XU9J4 had Inlet 34.6mm and Exhaust 29.6mm; has this carried through to the Xu10 or have the gotten larger/smaller.
    Last edited by Dave; 4th July 2004 at 10:17 PM.


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    Dave, I'll be there with my bells on
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    Hi Peter,
    I am absolutely positive our 97 Xantia 16v is an XU10J4.

    C5's definately have the EW engines.

    So what i'm interested to know is what is different between the 100kw XU10J4 from the 124kW XU10J4RS, obviously the intake and exhaust manifold are different, and as you mentioned the guides thinner, cams obviously, but overall the head should be pretty much the same then??

    Dave

    i can't tell you the difference between the J4 and the J4RS heads but i have been told that they are fairly different from each other

    It has been hard to find any cross sectional views of the head but i'd be interested to see one if someone has it and the same view of the J4 head
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    i can't tell you the difference between the J4 and the J4RS heads but i have been told that they are fairly different from each other

    It has been hard to find any cross sectional views of the head but i'd be interested to see one if someone has it and the same view of the J4 head
    I know what you mean i've been sifting through the net for ages and cant find anything. What i would absolutely love to see is an actual photo of the XU9J4, XU10J4, XU10J4R and XU10J4RS head, a shot of the combustion chamber and the ports. For interests sake an EW10J4 head would be nice too.

    Dave


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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    well i can show you some pics of the combustion chamber of the J4RS head to help start the process
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails XU9J4 (BX/405) vs XU10J4 (Xsara VTS/GTI6)-image-08.jpg   XU9J4 (BX/405) vs XU10J4 (Xsara VTS/GTI6)-image-09.jpg   XU9J4 (BX/405) vs XU10J4 (Xsara VTS/GTI6)-image-10.jpg  
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Thanks mate,
    Those photos are great, looks like it hasn't changed too much since the XU9J4.

    Dave


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    Thanks mate,
    Those photos are great, looks like it hasn't changed too much since the XU9J4.

    Dave
    Chamber is definitely different. Note the swirl bit between the inlets. Also, exhaust ports are oval, aren't they?

    '92 205 Mi16
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    The XU10J4 was used in the Xantia VSX which was build from 1993-1995 and the Flagship as far as luxury and performance was concerned (also Hydractive II).
    In 1995 the 2.0 Turbo CT engine was introduced so there was no more need for a 155bhp hi reving engine.

    I have one of the very first VSX's (build in France on 14 April 1993) and it's a nice car, eventhough it could need some extra ponies due to the rather heavy weight at 1325 Kg, hence my turbo project plans .........

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Yes Peter, from what i can see though the XU10's dont have the individual 8 port exhaust right through to the manifold like the Xu9. I would have thought that the original was the best design


    Dave


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    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Just something i was wondering about. Why did they go from 86x86 bore/stroke for the XU10 to 85x88 for the EW engines. I thought having the larger bore is better as more room for valves. Also they have gone back to the longer stroke of the XU9 engines yet rev them higher. And the last thing they have gone back to an alloy block.
    Hmm so with the alloy block of the EW10J4S it wouldn't be too heavy....maybe we will see some 205GTi180's or BX180's around in a few years

    Dave


  22. #22
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    Default the diameter of valves

    i have XU10J4 I'm in the process ( first time) head assemly (after 5 inlet bent valves ) so i measured the diameter of the valve :
    inlet 34.6 the same as MI16
    exhaust 29.6 " " "

  23. #23
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    xu10j4 in s16 too

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    Well it is Groundhog day ........
    ducksonetime likes this.

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