Twin carbs on 203
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  1. #1
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    Default Twin carbs on 203

    After too many races being beaten by a bloody Citroen Big 15 running an ID engine, it is time to make my 203 go faster. I have dragged out a dusty old twin-carb manifold I found a few years ago and am in the midst of working out throttle links etc.

    What I need to know is this:- the manifold runs a pair of the original 203 Solexes. Do I need to alter the jetting at all, or can I just bolt them on and go for it?

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    Any suggestions from 203 hooligans will be greatly appreciated

    Tony
    95 MI16
    71 404 U10 ute
    66 404 coupe
    55 203C (gently warmed) gone... sold...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi 03
    After too many races being beaten by a bloody Citroen Big 15 running an ID engine, it is time to make my 203 go faster. I have dragged out a dusty old twin-carb manifold I found a few years ago and am in the midst of working out throttle links etc.

    What I need to know is this:- the manifold runs a pair of the original 203 Solexes. Do I need to alter the jetting at all, or can I just bolt them on and go for it?

    Any suggestions from 203 hooligans will be greatly appreciated

    Tony

    I spent some time with this setup around 30 years ago.
    I found that even with the 1600 engine I was using it was best to use 19mm venturis. We spent a whole evening trying other set ups but alsways came back to that.
    Maybe don't go that far (the're a bit hard to find!) but keep your mind open to the benefits of going to smaller rather than larger

    Graham Wallis

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    You can't find two SUs off a Morris Minor?

    Of course you would need to get a Vanguard oil filter and cut it down...

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    Ray, down in the shed next to all the Pug stuff is a large box of SU's from 2" down to 1 1/8 , The sprite runs a pair of 1 1/8 so there's lots of variations within the SU range fitted to the A series motors.
    If you need to i can look up the SU tuning book ( which is next to me here ,) and give you the needle and spring settings .
    Phil

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    That is really interesting Graham.
    I was contemplating the same question, of jets in twin solexes

    I am not advocating this but I found the following in my search for info

    Sloniger in Modern Sports Car a US publication quotes Nardi in the 60's
    with twin 32 solexes on a 403
    getting 75bhp at 5250prm =114 ft lbs at 3750 with mainjet 95 choke 21 aircorrection of 170 and idlejet of 40

    truoble would be as you said, finding the jet sizes

    I have also seen pics of 3 carbs on a 203 head!!!!

    removing the fan blades supposedly gives 4mph and saves 2mpg

    I have a 1.3/4 Su on my 203 now but have not driven it as I am reassembling the trim etc

    It would be interesting to get some comparative dyno readings on different setups.

    Regards Alpine

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    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi 03
    After too many races being beaten by a bloody Citroen Big 15 running an ID engine, it is time to make my 203 go faster. I have dragged out a dusty old twin-carb manifold I found a few years ago and am in the midst of working out throttle links etc. Any suggestions from 203 hooligans will be greatly appreciated

    Tony
    Hey Tony: Ahhh memories!!!

    Is your twin carby manifold a genuine Nardi one? Does it have balance tubes that are curved, with a tiny badge on them?
    BTW the post that talks about 3 carbies is probably where they keep the original 203 carby & then add twins - you could try that too!
    From memory one of the best mods we made to our 203 was to put in a VW distributor. Probably worked cause the old one was stuffed anyway, but I would look at upgrading your dizzy to a new 504/505 one or go electronic.

    If you want to beat the B15 at his own game put 1600cc 404 liners in a bored out 203 block (wont fit in 403 block).

    But the absolute best mod is to add the supercharger (I had a Norman one - gawd where has all my old stuff gone???) plumb that into the original intake hole with your twin solexs - its guaranteed to beat him.
    So many projects - so little time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 604 tragic
    Hey Tony: Ahhh memories!!!

    Is your twin carby manifold a genuine Nardi one? Does it have balance tubes that are curved, with a tiny badge on them?
    BTW the post that talks about 3 carbies is probably where they keep the original 203 carby & then add twins - you could try that too!
    From memory one of the best mods we made to our 203 was to put in a VW distributor. Probably worked cause the old one was stuffed anyway, but I would look at upgrading your dizzy to a new 504/505 one or go electronic.

    If you want to beat the B15 at his own game put 1600cc 404 liners in a bored out 203 block (wont fit in 403 block).

    But the absolute best mod is to add the supercharger (I had a Norman one - gawd where has all my old stuff gone???) plumb that into the original intake hole with your twin solexs - its guaranteed to beat him.

    The 404 liners won't fit because the sealing faces on the 403 block are too far apart, that is the 403 liners are longer between the top of the block and the face on which the neoprene seal rests.
    To use a 403 block you just need to machine a suitably sized spacer ring to fit over the bottom portion of the liners. The 403 block is definitley stronger.
    You also need to use pistons with 22mm gudgeon pins, you can machine out the rod bushes but they are then awfully thin! Unless you can find some early 7 to 1 404 pistons it is best to use a thicker head gasket. 403/203 motors don't like high compression they barke crankshafts. There will be a deal of machining to do on the block to fit the 404 liners.

    Graham Wallis

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    Quote Originally Posted by 604 tragic
    Hey Tony: Ahhh memories!!!

    Is your twin carby manifold a genuine Nardi one? Does it have balance tubes that are curved, with a tiny badge on them?
    BTW the post that talks about 3 carbies is probably where they keep the original 203 carby & then add twins - you could try that too!
    From memory one of the best mods we made to our 203 was to put in a VW distributor. Probably worked cause the old one was stuffed anyway, but I would look at upgrading your dizzy to a new 504/505 one or go electronic.

    If you want to beat the B15 at his own game put 1600cc 404 liners in a bored out 203 block (wont fit in 403 block).

    But the absolute best mod is to add the supercharger (I had a Norman one - gawd where has all my old stuff gone???) plumb that into the original intake hole with your twin solexs - its guaranteed to beat him.


    If only it was a Nardi!!!. No, it is one that someone has fabricated locally sometime way back. At the moment I will keep the standard 203 block and 1290cc capacity simply because it is going too well to pull it to bits. When i finally kill it, the plan is a 403 block.

    While in the subject of carb.s etc, will the standard 203 fuel pump cope with the extra demand?

    As for supercharging, I would love to, but they are a bit thin on the ground here, and bloody expensive. Having said that, If I came across one, I will have to have it anyway. You sound like "One who knows", so what am I looking for in a blower?

    Cheerss

    Tony
    95 MI16
    71 404 U10 ute
    66 404 coupe
    55 203C (gently warmed) gone... sold...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi 03
    If only it was a Nardi!!!. No, it is one that someone has fabricated locally sometime way back. At the moment I will keep the standard 203 block and 1290cc capacity simply because it is going too well to pull it to bits. When i finally kill it, the plan is a 403 block.

    While in the subject of carb.s etc, will the standard 203 fuel pump cope with the extra demand?

    As for supercharging, I would love to, but they are a bit thin on the ground here, and bloody expensive. Having said that, If I came across one, I will have to have it anyway. You sound like "One who knows", so what am I looking for in a blower?

    Cheerss

    Tony
    Tony,
    Yes, the same fuel pump is used on everything up to the 505. If you have any problem buy a new one.

    Graham

  10. #10
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    Default Go 203

    To get the 203 to go , how about a turbo? A previous post led to
    www.peugeot203turbo.freeserver.com
    interesting pics

    Regards Alpine

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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine
    To get the 203 to go , how about a turbo? A previous post led to
    www.peugeot203turbo.freeserver.com
    interesting pics

    Regards Alpine
    either the url you typed is incorect or the site no longer exsists

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi 03
    As for supercharging, I would love to, but they are a bit thin on the ground here, and bloody expensive. Having said that, If I came across one, I will have to have it anyway. You sound like "One who knows", so what am I looking for in a blower?
    Tony
    Hi Tony
    I would go for a modern one from out of a Japanese impoter/wrecker. Many jap small engined cars had good s/chargers. Look on Google. Hres an example

    http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/A_2147/article.html

    Well, a good used blower will set you back as little as AUD$195 and they can typically boost an engine to around 14 psi without any reliability issues. Supercharger installation can be also pretty straight-forward in comparison to a turbo conversion. There’s no need to fabricate heavy-duty exhaust manifold(s), oil and water feed and return lines and no need to modify the front section of exhaust. All you need is a custom mounting bracket with an idler and a new belt. Oh, and a re-routed induction system and accompanying ECU mods.
    I found these comments on a Nissan chat site, it gives a good idea of what I was thinking:

    Hi - I have a pintara with the C20 motor and put a supercharger on it. The supercharger is off a toyota 1ge gze motor. It was a easy conversion because i used the A/C bracket to connect it to the motor and used a Commodore VL throttle body a Magna excelarator cable. I didn't have to play with the engine managment ssystem but i have to run it on premium petrol. It pumps about 4psi into the motor and has giving it well over 100kw. It was not to expensive costing me $1000 bucks and a few weekends muking around with friends. It seems to not be reving so hard at 5000rpm and can easily go up to 7000rpm. Toyota blowers are great and cheap too mine cost $300

    Good luck - must admit I have a foot in both camps on this one as I have a 1950 Light 15 Cit too!!
    So many projects - so little time.

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    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    putting my foot in things here maybe, but if you want a supercharger setup thats not to expensive toyota put one on what was basically a toyota corolla
    the 4agze is not an engine in itself that is very expensive these days, neither is the supercharger and it is quite nice. i don't know how it would bolt up to a pug though

  14. #14
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    A modern Toyota blower would be the logical way to go, but I will run into eligibility issues using a modern unit - I really would need something period. Same problem with a turbo.
    95 MI16
    71 404 U10 ute
    66 404 coupe
    55 203C (gently warmed) gone... sold...

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    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi 03
    A modern Toyota blower would be the logical way to go, but I will run into eligibility issues using a modern unit - I really would need something period. Same problem with a turbo.
    up to what year, if you looked hard enough you could probably find an older turbo or supercharger setup to fit to it. if you gave us a time period, somebody could probably recomend a suitable setup
    Last edited by orestes; 4th July 2004 at 08:50 PM.

  16. #16
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    The 203 turbo url works for me. try googling it

    Neat job, turned the 203 exhaust manifold upside down planted a Mistsubishi td 04-09 turbo on it at low boost and a pipe over the rocker cover into the carb.giving a 35% increase in hp.

    If any one knows where to get one of these turbos at reasonable price can you pass the info on please?

    Costantin and Shorrock both are period blowers.
    Goodwins in Cessnock may have some leads there

    regards Alpine

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine
    Costantin and Shorrock both are period blowers.
    regards Alpine
    Yep - & don't forget Judson and Vane. There was also the Eldred Norman one (a 'Heath Robertson' type engineer from Sth Australia) who, i think, used some inside components from milking machines.

    Probably the easiest & best period one would be a Judson as fitted to a Volkswagen, there were a few floating around in the 'good ol days'. They may turn up on eBay.

    I wouldnt hold out much hope of finding a Villiers supercharger from a 'blower' Bentley but in NZ nothing would surprise me! For example I got tyres for my classic French Velosolex Moped from NZ!!
    So many projects - so little time.

  18. #18
    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine
    The 203 turbo url works for me. try googling it

    Neat job, turned the 203 exhaust manifold upside down planted a Mistsubishi td 04-09 turbo on it at low boost and a pipe over the rocker cover into the carb.giving a 35% increase in hp.

    If any one knows where to get one of these turbos at reasonable price can you pass the info on please?

    Costantin and Shorrock both are period blowers.
    Goodwins in Cessnock may have some leads there

    regards Alpine

    from looking on the internet the TD04-09 is from an 87-89 mitsubishi pajero turno diesel this might help you in your search. http://www.turboservice.se/Mitsubishi.pdf

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine
    The 203 turbo url works for me. try googling it

    Neat job, turned the 203 exhaust manifold upside down planted a Mistsubishi td 04-09 turbo on it at low boost and a pipe over the rocker cover into the carb.giving a 35% increase in hp.

    regards Alpine
    YES YES YES - I just found this site via google & think its a ripper idea, so simple & effective, & so 203 too!

    So now you have to find a period turbocharger from the 1950s. Diesels had them & maybe aircraft?? A bit of research may turn up a suitable old turbo.
    So many projects - so little time.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    what about a blower from a commer knocker ???
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Probably way too big...



    And apart from that, I'd hate to lose even one chance to hear the lovely sound of that truck again!

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    or even hunt around for some of the old GM blowers from older trucks

    something like a GM53 or similar would be ok

    the trouble is room

    the other thing is constantin and others that were fitted to 203's were side mounted as well
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  23. #23
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    They would definitely be too large...

    One make that's still available new (and in the same form as sold in the fifties) is the Norman supercharger.

    Originally made in Adelaide by Eldred Norman, they can be obtained today from his son in Noosaville, Queensland.

    Definitely 'in period'... go for it!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    They would definitely be too large...

    One make that's still available new (and in the same form as sold in the fifties) is the Norman supercharger.

    Originally made in Adelaide by Eldred Norman, they can be obtained today from his son in Noosaville, Queensland.

    Definitely 'in period'... go for it!

    Ray, do you have any more stories about Eldred Norman?

    Graham

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    One make that's still available new (and in the same form as sold in the fifties) is the Norman supercharger.

    Originally made in Adelaide by Eldred Norman, they can be obtained today from his son in Noosaville, Queensland.
    Definitely 'in period'... go for it!
    The Norman supercharger I had was fitted to a 403 built up by those 2 good-ol-boys Laurie Keenan and Tony Ahearne in the 1960s??

    constantin and others that were fitted to 203's were side mounted
    Anyone have any pictures of these?
    So many projects - so little time.

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