Farewell To Aussiefrogs
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    270

    Default Farewell To Aussiefrogs

    most probably breaking my car, got my predictable Type R

    Advertisement


    (not the RSX you ***cop some moderation***, get your facts right while i blast past your caveman car with i-vtec)

    but i've also got my 500hp bug sorted out so this isnt very appealing any more
    thats 'coz the old man finally gave in and bought someone's order just before it arrived for them... the order...

    yep, he got a '04 Porsche 911 TURBO
    oh, with a $16k carbon fibre option
    took it out last night... about to get in it again...
    god i love it when parents have mid-life crisis

    so i guess this is goodbye to aussiefrogs and goodbye license
    Last edited by Brad; 1st July 2004 at 06:49 PM.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    270

    Default

    btw since its in technical... tis is why i got a type r...
    i almost got a 206 GTI 180... but i couldnt fit in it... and i dont think it had close to the gear of the K20A2 type R engine

    BTW jap spec. 167kw vs. aus spec 147kw is only in the tuning because we dont have 100ron fuel everywhere, and 0.5 difference in compression ratio (read: headgasket and chip)

    k here's the technical info on an engine that plenty of people are dropping in their lotus cars

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    The K20A : Honda's first DOHC iVTEC Engine

    The K20A used in the new Honda STREAM is the first of the new generation i-VTEC engines. Eventhough the engine does not produce a humongous amount of power in absolute terms, the importance of the engine is that it tells us of the new technologies that Honda is working on, and directly indicates the technologies that will be used on the new generation i-VTEC super high-performance engines that is to come.

    In the STREAM page on the official Honda of Japan's web-site, one sub-page was specifically dedicated to the implementation of the new i-VTEC mechanism on its K20A. There is a wealth of information contained on that sub-page so as usual, TOVA's japanese articles specialist Kaz Mori did a translation of that to english. After looking at the translation, I decided that the article was much too fragmented to be published just by itself. I decided that the most effective way to present the translation is to incorporate it into a K20A article of my own, written in such a way so that the whole will present a coherent and technically informative article that you are reading here.

    As I have mentioned at the beginning, do not judge the K20A by its mere 154ps power rating. What is important is not its specific power output but the sheer amount of technologies that Honda has put into it. It is truly a new generation VTEC engine - the DOHC iVTEC. As can be expected, a lot of wonderful current technologies have been carried over to the K20A, frequently enhanced in a way that makes the K20A overall a wonder-engine in its own way.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Original Honda of Japan's K20A article
    Fuel Economy, Ample Torque, Clean Emissions
    - The i-VTEC provides it all depending on engine load -
    The DOHC i-VTEC utilizes smart valve control technology

    The i-VTEC system utilizes Honda's proprietary VTEC sytem and adds VTC (Variable Timing Control), which allows for dynamic/continuous intake valve timing and overlap control.

    The demanding aspects of fuel economy, ample torque, and clean emissions can all be controlled and provided at a higher level with VTEC (intake valve timing and lift control) and VTC (valve overlap control) combined.


    iVTEC = VTEC + VTC
    Hopefully readers would have read my article on the new iVTEC and the basic operating principle that VTC or Variable Timing Control is based on. As Honda clearly stated in this K20A article, iVTEC is VTEC with VTC added. K20A uses a combination of VTEC-E and power-VTEC that switches between 12-valve economy mode and a 16-valve mode with a separate wild intake cam. VTC complements this VTEC variation. For the K20A engine however, outright power is not the sole objective of iVTEC, the other important parameters of fuel economy and emissions has been given equally important footing, a direction that Honda has always promoted in the past. This impossible balance of power and economy has previously only been realizeable in Honda's D15B 3-stage VTEC first used on the previous generation EK3 (and the D17A on the current Civic).



    VTC (Variable Timing Control mechanism)
    The VTC actuator, installed on the intake camshaft, is controlled by oil pressure, to allow for dynamic and continuous valve timing to fit the load of the engine.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The iVTEC implementation
    The K20A engine diagram explains the layout of the various components implementing iVTEC. I have intentionally edited the original diagram very slightly - the lines identifying the VTC components are rather faint and their orientation confusing. I have overlaid them with red lines. They identify the VTC actuator as well as the oil pressure solenoid valve, both attached to the intake camshaft's sprocket. The VTC cam sensor is required by the ECU to determine the current timing of the intake camshaft.

    The VTEC mechanism on the intake cam remains essentially the same as those in the current DOHC VTEC engines except for an implementation of VTEC-E for the 'mild' cam. The K20A article covers that in some details later.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The VTC mechanism
    Honda's pictorial representation of the VTC mechanism illustrates very clearly the operating principle of generic VVT - ie turning the camshaft in relation to the driving sprocket. However the actual VTC mechanism is unclear from the diagram. Readers should bear in mind that the generic VVT mechanism I described on the iVTEC article is just that - generic. Different manufacturers will implement the mechanism using different details. However, the important part is the introduction of a mechanism to isolate the camshaft from its driving sprocket and which also allows the relative rotational alignment between the two to be accurately controlled and continously changed.

    From what little is available from the Honda illustration, it seems that Honda may have opted to use a gear and tooth mechanism on the sprocket itself to implement the ability to rotate the sprocket in relation to the camshaft (or vice versa depending on how you look at it.)

    Additionally, the intake manifold length can be adjusted.
    Combined with the DOHC i-VTEC, in order to obtain both ample low/mid-end torque and high-end output, a rotary valve is used inside the dual-passage intake manifold.

    During low/mid rpm,, the rotary valve is closed, while it opens during high rpm's. By varying the intake path length according to engine rpm, ample torque is gained at all rpm levels. Additionally, the rotary valve design is superior over past butterfly valve (flap) in that it reduces intake resistance.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A Dual Intake Runner Manifold
    Owners of 'regular' DC2s and DB8s will now know that their B18C intake manifold has dual intake runners and that a butterfly valve is used to disable/enable the shorter runner. This give the B18C a wide mid-range powerband. The K20A implements this as well but uses a newer rotary valve instead. The rotary valve is more like a ball-ish cylinder that can be rotated along its horizonal axis. Machined into this valve is a passage that matches the intake runners diameter. When aligned appropriately (by rotating the valve), this passage opens up a bypass path for the incoming air into the intake chamber. Otherwise the passage gets blocked by the body of the valve and air has to flow through the long runners. As Honda explained, the rotary valve implementation is superior to the traditional buttefly valve in that when properly aligned, there is no metal plate in the middle of the airflow path disrupting or restricting its flow.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    An Imagery of the i-VTEC Implementation





    EGR Effect: By swirling back some of the exhaust air back into the combustion chamber, combustion temperature is lowered, and NOx output is reduced.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The iVTEC operating principle
    This section is the most complex of the whole article. As explained by Honda, we need to look at the operating combinations in a 3D mode now since we have introduced variable valve opening overlap in addition to the two stage cam profiles. Honda identifies 4 major cam variations for the K20A's iVTEC implementation. Of these, variations 1 to 3 are based on the so-called low cams and only variation 4 uses the high-cams. Note that the diagrams shows that VTEC is implemented only on the intake cam.

    Now, note that there is an annotation indicating a 'mostly resting (intake) cam' in variations 1 to 3. This is the 'approximately 1-valve' operating principle of VTEC-E. Ie, one intake valve is hardly driven while the other opens in its full glory. This instills a swirl effect on the air-flow which helps in air-fuel mixture and allows the use of the crazy 20+ to 1 air-to-fuel ratio in lean-burn or economy mode during idle running conditions.

    On first acquaintance, variations 1 and 3 seems identical. However, in reality they represent two different engine configurations - electronic-wise. Variation 1 is lean burn mode, the state in which the ECU uses >20:1 air-fuel ratio. VTC closes the intake/exhaust valve overlap to a minimal. Note that lean-burn mode or variation 1 is used only for very light throttle operations as identified by the full load Torque curve overlaid on the VTC/RPM graph. During heavy throttle runs, the ECU goes into variation 3.

    Lean-burn mode is contained within variation-2 as a dotted area probably for the reason that the ECU bounces to-and-fro between the two modes depending on engine rpm, throttle pressure and engine load, just like the 3-stage VTEC D15B and D17A. In variation-2, the ECU pops out of lean-burn mode, goes back to 14.7 or 12 to 1 air-fuel ratios and brings the intake/exhaust overlap right up to maximum. This as Honda explains will induce the EGR effect, which makes use of exhaust gases to reduce emissions. I believe this is somewhat similar to the principle used in CVCC that Honda introduced on their early generation Civics in order to meet emissions objectives in the early 1970s.

    I believe variation-3 is the mode where the ECU varies intake/exhaust opening overlap dynamically based on engine rpm for heavy throttle runs but low engine revs. Note also that variations 1 to 3 are used in what Honda loosely terms the idle rpm. For 3-stage VTEC engines, idle rpms takes on a much broader meaning. It is no longer the steady 750rpm or so for an engine at rest. For 3-stage VTEC, idle rpm also means low running rpm during ideal operating conditions, ie closed or very narrow throttle positions, flat even roads, steady speed, etc. It is an idle rpm range. The K20A engine implements this as well.

    Variation-4 is activated whenever rpm rises and throttle pressure increases, indicating a sense of urgency as conveyed by the driver's right foot. This mode sees the wild(er) cams of the intake camshaft being activated, the engine goes into 16-valve mode now and VTC dynamically varies the intake camshaft to provide optimum intake/exhaust valve overlap for power.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Conclusion
    I find the K20A engine an extremely interesting implementation, on par with the B16A (VTEC), B18C (VVIS) and the EK3 D15B (3-stage VTEC) when they first came out. This then is the future and the future is iVTEC. At the moment, rumours are beginning to incorporate liberal references to wild and wonderful iVTEC engines with specific power output currently only seen in the F20C and the hand-tuned B18CSpecR and B16B.

    However I feel things remains to be seen as to what will eventually come out of Honda's design boards. For TOVA, I remain interested to cover only solid real-life implementations and not rumours so I am eagerly waiting for what Honda will do to the Integra, widely expected to be the next model to go into its new generation. Now, the K20A by Honda's power standards is very mild. But if it is anything to go by, the new top-of-the-range Integra should have an engine that to call it fearsome would probably be a big under-statement indeed !
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  3. #3
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,355

    Default




    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    melb
    Posts
    4,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307


    AHAH, now you know whats its like when you post all that volvo crap LOL .Funny though cause id actually read most of the volvo crap, i didnt even bother reading this one!

  5. #5
    XTC
    XTC is offline
    VIC: a fine driving state XTC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Location Location Location
    Posts
    8,566

    Default

    He'll be back one day ... they all are.

    - XTC206 -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    3,626

    Default

    He'll be back when he runs outta money

    Derek.

  7. #7
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa
    He'll be back when he runs outta money

    Derek.
    So I take it you're hoping he wins Lotto??


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    4,569

    Default

    yep, he got a '04 Porsche 911 TURBO


    What a waste of money.............


    Same goes for the type R......(what price do u put on your sanity)


    cheers

    dino

    S#@t...I think I ve posted in the wrong thread,,,

  9. #9
    XTC
    XTC is offline
    VIC: a fine driving state XTC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Location Location Location
    Posts
    8,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa
    He'll be back when he runs outta money Derek.
    My wife and I are known as DIPA's .. Double Income Poor Arses

    - XTC206 -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    6,248

    Default

    Of course. He'll be back asking us to explain all the technicalities in the stuff he posted above...

    Stuey

  11. #11
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223

    Default

    If he comes back it should be in shame... the stuff that was edited out of his post was enough to show his attitude...

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    canberra...
    Posts
    8,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa
    He'll be back when he runs outta money

    Derek.
    I doubt that will happen - daddy seems to have a bit of cash.......
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  13. #13
    XTC
    XTC is offline
    VIC: a fine driving state XTC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Location Location Location
    Posts
    8,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    I doubt that will happen - daddy seems to have a bit of cash.......
    You saw what happened when Daddy supplies a bit of cash in Mosman ???

    - XTC206 -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    canberra...
    Posts
    8,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by XTC206
    You saw what happened when Daddy supplies a bit of cash in Mosman ???

    - XTC206 -
    wheres mosman?
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  15. #15
    XTC
    XTC is offline
    VIC: a fine driving state XTC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Location Location Location
    Posts
    8,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    wheres mosman?
    SYD - NSW
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  16. #16
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    8,923

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by XTC206
    SYD - NSW
    We'll prise it out of you yet.........whaddya torkin' abawt????


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    canberra...
    Posts
    8,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by XTC206
    SYD - NSW
    ah - do you refer to the rich kids driving about in their rice mobiles going doof doof? Walking through the car park at Monash Uni is an eye opener - brand new audis, mercs, and assorted w*nkerricemobiles all on P plates. Must be nice to not have to work for such things.....
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    melb
    Posts
    4,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    ah - do you refer to the rich kids driving about in their rice mobiles going doof doof? Walking through the car park at Monash Uni is an eye opener - brand new audis, mercs, and assorted w*nkerricemobiles all on P plates. Must be nice to not have to work for such things.....
    Haakon most of them benz & audi drivers are indonesian international students, monash (caufield campus) is basically a german auto saloon, with benzes with 20" chrome rims.
    The best car i've seen at uni is a e46 convertible M3 ON P-PLATES
    Worst thing about them indonesian international students is NONE OF THEM CAN DRIVE FOR CRAP, our uni car park is basically a destruction derby course.
    Last edited by purrr-geot; 2nd July 2004 at 11:50 AM.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    4,569

    Default

    Is it possible that Turbo....has posted on the wrong forum????accidentally???
    Has anybody read the Honda specs hes supplied/posted (I know I havent)????
    Might be wise to lock this one....???? Or move it to the POND.....seems a bit irrelevant....???




    cheers


    dino

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,516

    Default

    ditto.

    ***if you love something set it free, if it is irreplaceable lock it up ***
    .
    1300cc's of jap buzzbox delivered the times below.

    EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.15 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Done.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    3,626

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    We'll prise it out of you yet.........whaddya torkin' abawt????
    Accident. 17 yr old driving a 206CC 1.6L - 18 year old passenger killed.
    Driving wrong way on one way street, rolled it, hit trees and landed upside down on brick fence which punched through the rear left side of the car.

    It said alot for the structural integrity of the 206CC roof. It was all still in pretty much the right shape.

    Derek

    (edit: gee sorry didn't realise thread had been closed I just hit quote for AlanS and it went through... moderator powers ey? )

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •