Peugeot & Renault 3.0 V6 vs 2.8 PRV?
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  1. #1
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    Default Peugeot & Renault 3.0 V6 vs 2.8 PRV?

    Howdy folks,

    Hey, would anyone know if the Peugeot & Renault 3.0 V6's, the ones that did get DOHC heads etc before dying & which immediately superceded the 2.8 PRV's (as also fitted to Volvos), are a development of the PRV? Or were they clean-sheet new designs?
    Anyone know what the chances would be of easily fitting a French 3.0 24v into your 260, if you were "that way" inclined? They'd be a much smoother, more efficient & powerful alternative to the original (albeit somewhat harder to come by in Australia, I'd guess ).

    Ta for any & all comments!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forg
    Howdy folks,

    Hey, would anyone know if the Peugeot & Renault 3.0 V6's, the ones that did get DOHC heads etc before dying & which immediately superceded the 2.8 PRV's (as also fitted to Volvos), are a development of the PRV? Or were they clean-sheet new designs?
    Anyone know what the chances would be of easily fitting a French 3.0 24v into your 260, if you were "that way" inclined? They'd be a much smoother, more efficient & powerful alternative to the original (albeit somewhat harder to come by in Australia, I'd guess ).

    Ta for any & all comments!
    there is a 3.0litre 20 or 24v (i can't think at the moment) PRV, they were used in xantias, some 605's, delorians and the king of the hill model was a 450hp twin turbo set up that alpine(renault) used, as stock the 3.0L PRV comes with about 200hp, but could be tuned for more then 500hp if you were insane enough to undertake such a project, as for your 260, mate get a real car before you decide to put a huge engine in it, something that doesn't look like and handle like a boat, something like a 504 or 505 where this engine will feel at home, rather then feel like its being neglected by a bunch of sweedish jerks that don't know how to look after it
    Last edited by orestes; 27th June 2004 at 02:37 PM.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    the Deloreans only came with the 2849cc engine straight out of a volvo

    they were going to run a turbo or twin turbo on them but the dream came to an end before it ever surfaced

    the 605 out here as far as i know only got the 12 valve engine and not the ZPJ4

    the ZPJ4 had trouble overseas with the valves or something like that and were not a very well liked version of the engine

    if you do a search for the 24 valve version you will find reports about them
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    as for your 260, mate get a real car before you decide to put a huge engine in it, something that doesn't look like and handle like a boat

    You'd think someone who's spent their life defending their "unreliable" French car from those who've never owned one would refrain from insulting something else they've so obviously never driven, wouldn't you?

    pugrambo, yeah I've found some mention of the 24v 3.0's, and while they certainly look like PRV's I wanted to be sure they actually were 'fore I claimed they were. You know how much BS gets spread around the internet ... if I believed everything I read, etc etc.

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    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forg

    You'd think someone who's spent their life defending their "unreliable" French car from those who've never owned one would refrain from insulting something else they've so obviously never driven, wouldn't you?
    i have been in PRV V6 engined volvos, to make the statement that they are boring and the only half decent thing about them is there engine Forg. and as for unreliable, tell me when the engine of a volvo goes around the clock twice, i know of many pug engines that have done over 1 milion kilometres, and i know of many volvo PRV's that have died because there owners don't know how to maintain them. so don't try to put me in the category of a french car driver that, only defends french cars and knows nothing about anything else
    Last edited by orestes; 27th June 2004 at 05:41 PM.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    i have been in PRV V6 engined volvos, to make the statement that they are boring and the only half decent thing about them is there engine Forg. and as for unreliable, tell me when the engine of a volvo goes around the clock twice, i know of many pug engines that have done over 1 milion kilometres, and i know of many volvo PRV's that have died because there owners don't know how to maintain them. so don't try to put me in the category of a french car driver that, only defends french cars and knows nothing about anything else

    504's up to around 76 all had to have heads removed to replace liner seals mind you

    Volvo fell apart with the service intervals with the PRV engine not the owners where as peugeot's service intervals were normal at 10k

    most volvo's have done more km's than their counterparts in the 604's as well but this doesn't mean they are any better in the pug

    they are basically the same engine and do last quite a long time in either car so long as they are looked after

    i think it's time to remove head from peugeot cloud and come back to earth as there are just as many volvos that i have seen personally that have done the same mileage that pugs have done without any major work to them

    i love my pugs but i am a realist at the same time
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    504's up to around 76 all had to have heads removed to replace liner seals mind you

    Volvo fell apart with the service intervals with the PRV engine not the owners where as peugeot's service intervals were normal at 10k

    most volvo's have done more km's than their counterparts in the 604's as well but this doesn't mean they are any better in the pug

    they are basically the same engine and do last quite a long time in either car so long as they are looked after

    i think it's time to remove head from peugeot cloud and come back to earth as there are just as many volvos that i have seen personally that have done the same mileage that pugs have done without any major work to them

    i love my pugs but i am a realist at the same time

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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    i have been in PRV V6 engined volvos, to make the statement that they are boring and the only half decent thing about them is there engine Forg. and as for unreliable, tell me when the engine of a volvo goes around the clock twice, i know of many pug engines that have done over 1 milion kilometres...
    Yeah, just remember my friend, which manufacturer holds the title for highest mileage in the Guinness Book of Records.

    A Volvo P1800.

    It passed 2 million MILES in 2002, yes 3,200,000km with only ONE rebuild

    A lack of engine durability is one of the last things you can criticise Volvos for.

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    you can't really critiscise peugeots for this either we had a 504 wagon, until recently and it is still going, we know the people we gave it to. i know as af fact that it gone around the clock once at least without haveing any major work done to it. in either case i wasn't only talking about the PRV V6, when i was talking about reliability and peugeots and i have to say the pugs we've owned have been more reliable then any japanese or australian car we've owned
    Last edited by orestes; 28th June 2004 at 12:16 PM.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    you can't really critiscise peugeots for this either we had a 504 wagon, until recently and it is still going, we know the people we gave it to. i know as af fact that it gone around the clock once at least without haveing any major work done to it. in either case i wasn't only talking about the PRV V6, when i was talking about reliability and peugeots and i have to say the pugs we've owned have been more reliable then any japanese or australian car we've owned

    yes they are reliable and yes they do seem to go on forever but as i said you need to pull your head out of the peugeot cloud as there are many many pug engines that don't do the miles that other cars have done

    i have a 400k 604 here and it will probably keep on going but i have heard of and seen many that have been rebuilt ot 200k

    i have also seen many a 504 engine rebuilt at between 250-300k as well
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    The PRV V6s are identical in Volvo and Peugeot year for year and as someone above said. Volvo oil and coolant time intervals were too long and Volvo used drain taps that did not allow adequate flushing of the coolant and so the blocks tended to suffer worse corrosion. In the Volvo it was also harder to access the drains anyway, some of many PRVs that I have disassembled in the last 20 years have had half the front sleeves, nos 3 and 6 silted up with corrosion halfway up the sleeve in the water jacket. This led to the infamous Volvo corroding block problem.

    The lack of oil led to cam lobe failure, this was caused by blockages in the rocker oilers, a weakness in the design of the engine I have fixed by opening the oilers of the rockers to 0.95mm or so.

    In respect of the 24 valve V6s there were a number of British and Euro 605s that did have this engine sadly none in Australia of course. In fact that is the only car I can personally confirm had the PRV 24V. I can confirm the block is the same and so will bolt up to anywhere where that PRV V6 was. There is one fitted to a 505 in Melbourne, the biggest problem in retro fitting them to where a 12 Valve V6 previously was is that the rocker covers are much higher and in a Peugeot at least foul on the brake master and other bit and pieces. (almost forgot, the front drive sump needs to be replaced with the rear drive sump of course)

    If you want big power, and I am building this type of engine right now, get a B280 even fire and change the cams to those provided by Crow Cams for a 2850, about $500 pair, do some porting and it will go OK.
    Last edited by OddFireV6; 28th June 2004 at 11:50 PM.
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    Fellow Frogger! aquinian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OddFireV6
    If you want big power, and I am building this type of engine right now, get a B280 even fire and change the cams to those provided by Crow Cams for a 2850, about $500 pair, do some porting and it will go OK.
    I built a 2.7l (odd-fire) with 2850 standard cams (higher lift than the 2.7l) a few months ago. It has the Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection unit. I matched the ports and cleaned out the excess casting stuff with grinding stones. It goes like a train. I have just gotten it back today from a long-experienced Volvo mechanic who diagnosed a dicky coil for me, and he commented on how powerful the thing is.

    But I still wouldn't call it "big power." The next step is to find a manual box and flywheel, and bolt two WRX turbos on. 500 BHP sounds good to me.

    Do you know Rob Cherry and the other blokes who build these things in Vic?

    Cheers,
    John Lane
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    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    ORESTES......ccccc.....cough cough.......u know not what u talk about.....2.1 L engines must be some of the toughest things on this planet...considering they were not known to come as diesels.......My opinion.....Volvo 2.1...probably one of toughest,...VW golf (early 70ees)...was a superbly reliable unit 2....TRUST me on this....give up while u r ahead...and remeber the glory days of the Turbo 240 series that kicked but throughout the Aussie touring series...with hardly any problems at all..... Volvo owners were never keen on the V6....but in those days many a mechanic stuffed them up.....not surprising, considering wet sleeves aND ohc....just because they could fix a 202 didn t quite qualify them in my books....



    cheers


    dino


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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    ORESTES......ccccc.....cough cough.......u know not what u talk about.....2.1 L engines must be some of the toughest things on this planet...considering they were not known to come as diesels.......My opinion.....Volvo 2.1...probably one of toughest,...VW golf (early 70ees)...was a superbly reliable unit 2....TRUST me on this....give up while u r ahead...and remeber the glory days of the Turbo 240 series that kicked but throughout the Aussie touring series...with hardly any problems at all..... Volvo owners were never keen on the V6....but in those days many a mechanic stuffed them up.....not surprising, considering wet sleeves aND ohc....just because they could fix a 202 didn t quite qualify them in my books....



    cheers


    dino

    dino... i know i have a good idea of what i'm talking about... and with the right pug you can not knock its reliability... we have personally owned a 1 milion kilometre pug and a couple that were on or near half a million a good 505 or 504 is as reliable as any car on the road mechanicaly wise... none of these cars had had there engines pulled apart either and all though beaten up with dents etc i know for a fact that million km 504 wagon is still on the road
    Last edited by orestes; 21st July 2004 at 01:09 AM.

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    ...hang on a minute....I WAS NOT KNOCKING PUGS.....I m sure a well looked after 504, 404 fuego.....hell even citroen can see huge milage.....I ll go as far as saying that the same could be said for our local friends like falcons and comodores....In ten years time there might even be a hyndai with a million kays on the clock (although unlikely).....Point is some cars come out of the factory as LEMONS.....others are stuffed up by the local mechanics......and then you get the odd car....thats being well looked after, both the way its driven and who it was serviced by........
    So to claim volvo ENGINES were less reliable than the pug units I think is a bit of a myth,,,.....hell if you r so keen on criticising the sweedes than GO for the SAAB....I dont think you ll find many defending it here.....(although secretly I still think the 16v turbo motor was a nice and solid unit---still plenty on the road).....let alone the number of 240s still chugging along)



    cheers


    dino


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    I think its time to put an end to the fatuous titter about which is better Peugeot or Volvo. This pointless argument about the two Marques in general is meaningless and driven by emotion not fact. They, Volvo and Peugeot both have their strengths and weaknesses end of story. I am disappointed that my statement of simple fact above led to this string of posts.

    More facts then, I can with certainty say that the PRV V6s as used in pre 1988 Volvos showed a considerably greater failure rate than the equivalent Peugeot motors, this is not a myth. This is based on my personal disassembly of about 15 of them and exposure to a similar number amongst others in the Victorian Peugeot club members, the reasons for this I explained above. Further evidence of this comes from contact with Volvo repairers and wreckers where a roaring trade existed in using second hand Peugeot 604 engine parts, particularly rockers, camshafts and blocks. This was when 604s had a poor resale value and some Volvo’s that used this motor were still quite valuable. In general a Volvo engine was worth double the Peugeot engine second hand because of the need for replacement Volvo engines. Now-re read my earlier post.

    Now if anyone feels that Volvo has been hard done by here can console themselves with the fact that the 1991 Volvo 150kw straight 6 as fitted to later 960s was rightly rejoiced at by Volvo owners because it was a much better motor. Further consolation can also be drawn from the fact that both my 505 and 504 have Volvo blocks in them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OddFireV6
    In respect of the 24 valve V6s there were a number of British and Euro 605s that did have this engine sadly none in Australia of course. In fact that is the only car I can personally confirm had the PRV 24V.
    It was also fitted to the early Series 2 XM - there are at least two in Sydney - both private imports. AFAIK all the cars were manual as PSA did not have an Auto gearbox to handle the power of the 24V. The engine makes wonderful sounds though!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith
    It was also fitted to the early Series 2 XM - there are at least two in Sydney - both private imports. AFAIK all the cars were manual as PSA did not have an Auto gearbox to handle the power of the 24V. The engine makes wonderful sounds though!

    Paul
    afaik the 24v 3.0l was fited to some xantias and 605's and a few other things like alpines. the alpine got a 450hp twin turbo version of the 3.0l 24v

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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    afaik the 24v 3.0l was fited to some xantias and 605's and a few other things like alpines. the alpine got a 450hp twin turbo version of the 3.0l 24v

    it was i think the 2 top most models of the 605 that got the ZPJ4 engine that we never got here

    BTW have you ever seen the exhaust manifold from a ZPJ4 ?
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    ...hang on a minute....I WAS NOT KNOCKING PUGS.....I m sure a well looked after 504, 404 fuego.....hell even citroen can see huge milage.....
    In the Fuego's case, some I've seen have a tendancy to self destruct AROUND the engine......

    I think the Fuego would have to be one of the most durable "sports" cars around...

    I see so many 205GTi's that get rebuilt at 200K or earlier....In a Fuego at 200K, the engine is usually just starting to feel run in....

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    BTW have you ever seen the exhaust manifold from a ZPJ4 ?
    no i haven't... i've only ever really looked at engine diagrams of it and a few pictures... i've never seen one in the flesh as they are as rare as rocking horse poop in australia.. or seen what the exshaust maniflod is like on them for that matter EDIT: i forgot about this... but didnt the 406 run the prv 24v with fuel injection in some models the ES9J4 if im right.. or was that not a prv
    Last edited by orestes; 22nd July 2004 at 12:58 AM.

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    ORESTES
    mate get a real car before you decide to put a huge engine in it, something that doesn't look like and handle like a boat, something like a 504 or 505 where this engine will feel at home, rather then feel like its being neglected by a bunch of sweedish jerks that don't know how to look after it


    then

    ORESTES
    i have been (BEEN -being the operative word) in PRV V6 engined volvos, to make the statement that they are boring and the only half decent thing about them is there engine Forg. and as for unreliable, tell me when the engine of a volvo goes around the clock twice(go figure...we r talking about the V6 r we?),"then": i know of many pug engines that have done over 1 milion kilometres( R we still talking V6?...no didn t think so!), and i know of many volvo PRV's that have died because there owners don't know how to maintain them.(holly carp...wasn t that what oddfire was refferimng to initially) so don't try to put me in the category of a french car driver that, only defends french cars and knows nothing about anything else (well at leat you ve "BEEN" in one)

    DINO
    Volvo owners were never keen on the V6


    then again

    ORESTES
    in either case i wasn't only talking about the PRV V6, when i was talking about reliability and peugeots (hence my mention of 2.1 which is much much more prevelant....)


    then me
    DINO
    ...hang on a minute....I WAS NOT KNOCKING PUGS....


    and here comes....
    MR ODDFIRE
    Further consolation can also be drawn from the fact that both my 505 and 504 have Volvo blocks in them.


    and to quote me again
    DINO
    .....others are stuffed up by the local mechanics......and then you get the odd car....thats being well looked after, both the way its driven and who it was serviced by........



    So.....oddfire ...anymore to add.......
    HOW MANY v6 VOLVOS in AU.....?
    HOW MANY V6 PUGS IN AU......?
    I have no idea....but I can bet, there was a shitload more volvos around.....
    So....no I m not being emotinal about the volvo at all....just sensible......U didnt see me insulting a fresh members car did u????

    knock knock ...anybody home.....????




    cheers


    dino....

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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    ORESTES
    mate get a real car before you decide to put a huge engine in it, something that doesn't look like and handle like a boat, something like a 504 or 505 where this engine will feel at home, rather then feel like its being neglected by a bunch of sweedish jerks that don't know how to look after it


    then

    ORESTES
    i have been (BEEN -being the operative word) in PRV V6 engined volvos, to make the statement that they are boring and the only half decent thing about them is there engine Forg. and as for unreliable, tell me when the engine of a volvo goes around the clock twice(go figure...we r talking about the V6 r we?),"then": i know of many pug engines that have done over 1 milion kilometres( R we still talking V6?...no didn t think so!), and i know of many volvo PRV's that have died because there owners don't know how to maintain them.(holly carp...wasn t that what oddfire was refferimng to initially) so don't try to put me in the category of a french car driver that, only defends french cars and knows nothing about anything else (well at leat you ve "BEEN" in one)

    DINO
    Volvo owners were never keen on the V6


    then again

    ORESTES
    in either case i wasn't only talking about the PRV V6, when i was talking about reliability and peugeots (hence my mention of 2.1 which is much much more prevelant....)


    then me
    DINO
    ...hang on a minute....I WAS NOT KNOCKING PUGS....


    and here comes....
    MR ODDFIRE
    Further consolation can also be drawn from the fact that both my 505 and 504 have Volvo blocks in them.


    and to quote me again
    DINO
    .....others are stuffed up by the local mechanics......and then you get the odd car....thats being well looked after, both the way its driven and who it was serviced by........



    So.....oddfire ...anymore to add.......
    HOW MANY v6 VOLVOS in AU.....?
    HOW MANY V6 PUGS IN AU......?
    I have no idea....but I can bet, there was a shitload more volvos around.....
    So....no I m not being emotinal about the volvo at all....just sensible......U didnt see me insulting a fresh members car did u????

    knock knock ...anybody home.....????




    cheers


    dino....


    the point of this was what dino... to create an argument to make yourself feel better... to make yourself seem like you know everything.... this argument was a week or two old and well and truely dead when you decided to stick your foot in the proverbial dung pile dino and after reading what everyone else has said i have accepted the fact that volvos are reliable i really couldn't care less about volvos though... now then all of this said i'm sorry if i stired up a hornets nest by jumping on volvos... now then i am "NOT" not beeing the operative word going to continue this into some sort of an argument to make yourself feel good dino so if you want to continue argueing you can argue with yourself
    Last edited by orestes; 22nd July 2004 at 10:25 AM.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    here you go guys

    this site isn't bad start to see some of the applications the PRV V6 was used in

    PRV
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    hellooooooooooo....cooooeeeeeeee....anybody HOME.....
    Mate...we know who put their foot in the you know what......as for my post and the fact that its a few weeks later....big....F#*3n...deal....I can reply to it when I see it or when it catches my interest.....Some posts get brought up months later.....Big deal.....even the moderators have been known to MISS threads......As for me feeling GOOD......mate....I feel good...and I ve owned volvos among many many other cars......
    But at the end of the day...its good that YOU CAN SEE THE LIGHT....and you r right about volvos....no need for them to be the cause of dispute (if we put "OUR" minds to it).....but it is a related issue and its good to have some 'heated' argument....I m not offended in any way...
    Like ODDFIRE said.....they have their pros and cons....what I wanted to bring to the discussion was the fact that from my experience many a volvo V6 was "STUFFED" by some 'bad' mechanics out there, who simply do not take pride in their work.....Like many things in life...some things can be negated if appropriate action is taken......






    dino

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