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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    Default Expected output

    OK ive had a look and made a few calcs and decided that a Porsche is not for me because i dont wanna pay 450 bucks for a set of brake pads, its just cricket and id need a 100% pay rise to afford it!

    How much power/gain do you think id get from the following and what else do you think i should do:

    Vernier Cam Gears - for the dyno tune
    EMS Stinger 3 ECU
    PeterT Reground Inlet Cam
    3 Angle Valve seats

    Anything else i should do while im thinking abot it?

    Bigger valves?
    Bigger Injectors?
    TB's?
    Higher Compression?

    Also, heavy duty clutch and heavy duty pressure plate, any brand names i should look for or who i can obtain one off? The factory cluctch just doesnt cut it anymore, it slips after about 4500 - 5000rpm when trying to launch. And finally, is there ayway i can strengthen my gearbox? I think this is going to be the weakest link if the above mods go ahead.

    I just applied for a $6000 loan so i gues ive got about 5500 to spend.

    Cheers lads

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    Last edited by sproose16v; 21st June 2004 at 12:37 PM.
    1989 BX 16 Valve Mk1 - SOLD (And Missed)
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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    ANYONE?
    1989 BX 16 Valve Mk1 - SOLD (And Missed)
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sproose16v
    ANYONE?
    The cam, ECU and seats are good. You won't need the verniers. I've already done all the hardwork. Increase the compression if you can afford it. That's what really makes the difference, and sets the platform up for bigger cams later on. I'm not that familiar with a Stinger. Make sure it can do MAP sensing and take an input from a Motronic 60-2 crank trigger. Otherwise, consider another ECU. It's not worth the hassle adapting triggers on an Mi16. You'll pay out a lot more cash, than the cost of another ECU (Haltech, Autronic, Motec etc.)

    There's nothing wrong with an OEM Mi16 clutch. Yours is probably just stuffed.

    Weakest link is the sun gears. Buy a Quaife centre.

    That all makes approx. 170-175hp with std. injectors and 10.4:1 CR. I've also got a bigger grind that will make 185-190hp, but you'll need bigger injectors.
    Last edited by PeterT; 21st June 2004 at 06:06 PM.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    I've got a Stinger on my car.

    Mines setup with a TPS. Surely he could do the same?

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYT205
    I've got a Stinger on my car.

    Mines setup with a TPS. Surely he could do the same?
    TPS is better for bigger cams and low vacuum, but when you've got good manifold vacuum the MAP sensor will react far quicker to engine loads, giving better driveabilty and throttle response.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  6. #6
    Member Tim Tech's Avatar
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    Done right, 200HP is possible with that sort of money!!

    Please contact me to discuss your options

    Tim Tech

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    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    Excelent! Well, i guess ill be keeping you guys posted and giving you call in the next few weeks PeterT. If i want to get the bigger grind what size injectors should i get? And do you think if i shaved the head 20thou would be good enough to increase my compression? Finally how much are the higher comp pistons and the quafe diff center?

    Cheers lads!
    Last edited by sproose16v; 22nd June 2004 at 11:11 PM.
    1989 BX 16 Valve Mk1 - SOLD (And Missed)
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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sproose16v
    Excelent! Well, i guess ill be keeping you guys posted and giving you call in the next few weeks PeterT. If i want to get the bigger grind what size injectors should i get? And do you think if i shaved the head 20thou would be good enough to increase my compression? Finally how much are the higher comp pistons and the quafe diff center?

    Cheers lads!
    Shaving the head is very bad. It shrouds the valves and only gives about half a point in compression. Pistons are approx. US$500, but there are other alternatives. When you contact me we'll discuss the options. See the Quaife bulk deal buy thread.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    Thanks PeterT!


    Also i sent a few emails to a few workshops and one of them was autoparis:

    hi ryan
    this is not a prob....
    a good standard engine with throttle bodies alone will make 190...
    i have a good set of cam and with some head work and throttle bodies 220 is very easy..
    this means you will need a new injection system too...
    this will cost close to 10 grand...
    Can someone tell me how the hell throttle boddies will get me 42HP? And i love the idea of 220BHP! I really do im not been sarcastic! This sounds great! But what extent will i need to go to? ANyone got an idea? This sounds really good, and im willing to get a bigger loan and spend more cash, any day!
    1989 BX 16 Valve Mk1 - SOLD (And Missed)
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    That's all very well, but do you want to at least look legal? You can make good hp with the std. inlet manifold.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Ryan,

    You live in sydney. Take advantage of that and drop you car off at PeterT's house and leave it with him for a month. It's simple dude.

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    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    Yeah im still sticking with Big Pete dont you worry! I just wonderign how you can gain 42HP from a set of TB's and a ECU. Thats quite a big jump if you ask me, almost sounds too good to be true. Ill be takin the cit off the road in about 3 - 4 weeks for some "cleansing" we could say....
    1989 BX 16 Valve Mk1 - SOLD (And Missed)
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    1992 R32 GTSt Skyline

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Because it comes down to flow.

    The TBs aid the flow of air from what would usually be a relatively restrictive manifold, AFM and filter set up.

    The ECU gets the timing of the spark perfect (because it's tuneable) for the optimum output of the motor.

    Remember that 42HP is not 42KW.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    Yeah i know, 42hp is 31.3 kW. Still not a bad gane at all. Yeah i dig what you saying!
    1989 BX 16 Valve Mk1 - SOLD (And Missed)
    http://www.bx16v.cjb.net
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    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    Throttle bodies alone will NOT make 42hp difference.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    Yeah whats i thought, too good to be true... I love that bannana!
    1989 BX 16 Valve Mk1 - SOLD (And Missed)
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYT205
    Throttle bodies alone will NOT make 42hp difference.
    True.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    I read on the ecosse website that a set of 45mm Jenvy TB's will give 20 - 30hp. Is that a correct statement? It seems like it would be but i dont wanna go assuming things until i ask you guys because the Internet can be so full of s**t its not funny! And stupid people.

    Anyway yeah.
    1989 BX 16 Valve Mk1 - SOLD (And Missed)
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  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    The cam, ECU and seats are good. You won't need the verniers. I've already done all the hardwork. Increase the compression if you can afford it. That's what really makes the difference, and sets the platform up for bigger cams later on. I'm not that familiar with a Stinger. Make sure it can do MAP sensing and take an input from a Motronic 60-2 crank trigger. Otherwise, consider another ECU. It's not worth the hassle adapting triggers on an Mi16. You'll pay out a lot more cash, than the cost of another ECU (Haltech, Autronic, Motec etc.)

    There's nothing wrong with an OEM Mi16 clutch. Yours is probably just stuffed.

    Weakest link is the sun gears. Buy a Quaife centre.

    That all makes approx. 170-175hp with std. injectors and 10.4:1 CR. I've also got a bigger grind that will make 185-190hp, but you'll need bigger injectors.
    Forogot to tell you my clucth only has 8,000kms on it, and it hasnt been used very hard compared to the previous one. I seem to find that i cant launch anywhere above 4300rpm without the clutch slipping or gettn wheelspin, ive tried a few times but gave up as i dont want to ruin a almost new clucth, tried adjusting it and 3000 - 3300 seems to be the best RPM for me, mabye i just cant drive for s**t i dunno. But i just thought a heavy duty would be better in the long run as it would last longer and be a bit more durable.
    1989 BX 16 Valve Mk1 - SOLD (And Missed)
    http://www.bx16v.cjb.net
    1992 R32 GTSt Skyline

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    Fellow Frogger! winnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    That's all very well, but do you want to at least look legal? You can make good hp with the std. inlet manifold.
    Agree.
    Mods like this WILL effect the emissions of your engine. If it LOOKS standard on the outside you can side step a lot of headaches. Std inlet is known for good potential.

    Some people are pretty keen to lighten your pockets.
    Quad throttle bodies (if done properly in conjunction with other mods) will give you superior volumetric eff. particularily at higher rpm. They are nice, i would like to have some, but are generally an expensive waste unless you make other considerable modifications to the engine (read here spend a lot).

    If only i could find the money tree a young 306 owner seems to be shaking
    Last edited by winnie; 23rd June 2004 at 12:15 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    So if i was to go with quad TB's do i need an engineers certificate and all that stuff? Anyone got one of those? If so how much do they cost?



    Cheers
    1989 BX 16 Valve Mk1 - SOLD (And Missed)
    http://www.bx16v.cjb.net
    1992 R32 GTSt Skyline

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! winnie's Avatar
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    Yes. The cert isn't the hard part, its the testing/tuning to meet the requirments, which generally equals a bit more time on the dyno. ie one ecu map to pass test (additional programing and dyno time), and one that makes full use of the engines capabilites (the one you would be getting in the first place)

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    OK sweet, i put TB's as the absolute last mod on my car, also will i have to notify my insurance company about these mods, ive been dreding this question but it needs to be asked...
    1989 BX 16 Valve Mk1 - SOLD (And Missed)
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  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    A good plenum type system (like the factory Mi16) will make just as much power as quads at the top end. Its down low that the throttle bodies really make the difference. They tend to give you greater throttle response and drivability down low when using big cams.

    The only time the quads will make a big difference up high is if the standard manifold was a big restriction up high. If so, you could always get a bigger throttle body and mount that on the standard manifold. The other restriction is often the air flow meter. Of course, with throttle bodies this is discarded but you need aftermarket injection to run it. So why not run aftermarket injection on the standard manifold with bigger throttle body.

    You've just got to figure out if/where there is a restriction.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    TB's added 12kW at the wheels to Wuillemin's car. I wouldn't do it to a street car that has to pass an emission test though. You won't even get past go with an aftermarket ECU. And don't tell your insurance company. They'll either wipe you instantly or add a very big surcharge.

    I think it's better to keep it looking stock, even though it's not. You can remove the flap on the AFM, so it flows well, and retain the std. air cleaner. It's possible to fit a TB off an Audi or Golf that flows about 50% more.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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