5 speed build
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Thread: 5 speed build

  1. #1
    Tadpole Lotus 47's Avatar
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    Default 5 speed build

    I'll post some pics and see if i can get this thread started

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  2. #2
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    OK! That seemed to work.

    This thread will show the the construction of a 353 style 5 speed box to suit an A110.

    The 353 was initially fitted to the A110 and R8 Gordini, and mated to a Sierra block engine. Fab little box that was inclined to break.

    Back in 2005 there was a lot of activity around A110's in Melbourne, and 5 speed boxes were getting impossible to find. With the tireless assistance of Rob Sealey, we created 4 boxes, with various donor parts, using some original 353 bits, some replica 353 bits, some bits I made, and some bits Rob made.

    The primary box to start with is a 385 from a R16TX or R5. I sourced a box from Europe, had it stripped and then had the required parts sent to me.

    The next box you need donates the main case. I used an R10S for a couple of reasons. It has a beefier case, beefier springs and balls for the selector shafts, and a better throw out bearing arrangement if you are building a box to suit a Sierra block.
    The R10S case is easily identified by a boss on the LH case which is unused, but appeared on the R16 box to take a reverse light switch. Note the reverse selector shaft is longer to activate the switch, so with the right bits you can fit a switch and reverse lights. But I digress!

    The final box you need is from an R8. It supplies some vital selector shaft components. I ended up buying a very rusty complete R8 just to get the the box out of it, and then strip the box for a small handful of selectors!

    This is just the starting point.

    I made a 12mm spacer, and the build started. See the photos in the previous post
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    OK. Struggling with attachments. They were there, then they weren't cos I deleted them in my attachment manager. I'll work it out.....

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    Default Photos attached hopefully

    With luck I'm back on track with attachments
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  6. #6
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    Default The sandwich plate

    I think Rob Sealey lent me his 353 sandwich plate, so I made a couple from the sandwich plate that came with he 385 boxes. tedious stuff. Pretty sure you can buy fab shiny new ones, CNC'd and ready to go. Spend the $$$ and buy one.
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    COL
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    Default

    Thanks for those pics Richard, they explain well what you have done.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    Default Selectors

    This is a very brief overview. Lots of specialist bits required for the 5th gear hub and selector fork, which are not really detailed here.
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    Default The end housing

    The end housing seems to be the bit that get lost or broken. I think I bought 3 from Simon Auto and they had MECAPARTS cast into them! They were stupidly expensive back then and frankly, very badly made. But we didn't have a choice. Since 2005 the quality has vastly improved (so I'm told), and the price is now about $1000. Heaps and heaps of fiddling about to get it to fit and WORK!

  10. #10
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    So that's the basics of the box. It still needs a bell-housing, which again needs mods if you're building a R16TS based engine. Then you need to centralize the whole box and rear suspension in the car, and add revised U/J's with bigger inboards splines. Finally you have to modify the shift linkage to work. I use a U/J in the shift linkage rather than those terrible rubber blocks Renault seemed to favour.

    If I had to do this today for a customer it would be a $15,000 job. So much time and effort, it's hard to justify.

    And where do you get the 3 required donor boxes. I struggled 15 years ago.....

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus 47 View Post

    If I had to do this today for a customer it would be a $15,000 job. So much time and effort, it's hard to justify.
    Unless it was a Ferrari

  12. #12
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    Default A few more photos

    The cases of two 5 speeds. I had them glass bead blasted on the outside and sealed them up so a minimal amount of crap got inside. Then I painted 2 pack clear over the top.

    One box got shipped to NZ.
    Rob Sealey built up another.

    My box was finally put together by Colliers using the last 353 end housing and shifter bits they had on the shelf. I fitted a modified 16TS bellhousing, for a 1600S type engine. Note the rear big brake upgrade.

    The other box went into the red/white/blue Alpine in the backgound. Pretty sure Rob Sealey built that box
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    That is a lot of effort, but these days some of the parts would be much easier to make/modify if only you had a small mill. Even on my mill (the smallest you can buy) you could make some of the parts, including the sandwich plate and it wouldn't be a hassle. That is the advantage of having a modern DRO. Heck, you can even cut the splines on the outputs on my mill. Larger parts like the half casing wouldn't fit on my table, but the next size up mill would take it. I am saying this because a mill that would do everything is these days about 3000$, not that much for what looks to be a good niche market for these parts.

    You would still have the problem of finding donor boxes and rear (five speed) casings, though that would be the poster child for a CNC job (there are already places around that can do it easily). If you give them the file, it might even not cost that much, potentially under or close to the 1000$ Mecaparts ask for one of their dubious castings and it would be worlds better.

    But, speaking of castings, there is a very good bloke in NSW (I think) who has a Youtube channel and he does amazing casting jobs in Aluminium (all sorts of car parts, intakes, pistons, etc). Here:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC90...G0HIA6g/videos

    I bet he would love a challenge like that and judging by his work, he would probably do a cracking job of it.

    Wonder how much it would cost to cast the gearbox casings so you can do away with looking for donors, hehehehe!
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    @Lotus 47: Nice pictures! I guess if the car is a lesser valuable one than a Gordini or a A110 one could cut a whole in the floor for the 385 end housing. I guess that would solve some of the problems.

    @schlitzaugen: Oldfoundryman is one of my absolute youtube favorites. Drives my wife crazy... He makes really nice videos and he is not a amateur like most others in there. His foundry work is amazing.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Check out the other metal workers' channels like Stefan Gotteswinter or This Old Tony not to mention the more specialised channels.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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