505 best toe-in settings
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Thread: 505 best toe-in settings

  1. #1
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    Default 505 best toe-in settings

    I just got the 505 GR back from an alignment and saw with alarm that they have adjusted front toe-in to +1.1L and +1.0R and that their specs say 1.0 to 3.1mm is the standard. Should have looked at the sheet before paying. I checked the Haynes manual and it states 3.0 +or- 1.0mm, and the Peugeot handbook states 4.0 +or-1.0mm. Now I'm wondering where they got the 1.0 to 3.1mm standard from. Car has slightly lowered front springs and -0deg 54' camber.

    In the thread below Demannu says the best toe-in for a 505 is 0.5mm but doesn't explain why. I know less toe-in helps cornering and more toe-in helps straight line stability but I don't want to scrub my tyres either way. With the 1.1/1.0mm toe the car feels stable and not vague in a straight line but how do I know it wont feel even more stable at 3.0 or 4.0mm toe? Which is the best setting for everyday road use?

    505 camber issues

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    Last edited by nisspug2; 29th August 2019 at 06:33 PM.

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    Don't know nothing about 505's, but I would say 3 to 4mm of toe in is excessive. Sounds like a great recipe for tyre scrubbing.
    1mm individual toe in on each side (2mm total) is no surprise from an aligner.
    If you want anything outside that you will have to tell them what you want.

    I would agree with having +0.5mm individual. About right for a bit of spirited driving.
    If it were my car I'd likely have 0 toe.


    I do have 2 questions that are both the same question.
    1. Is the +1.0 to 3.1mm spec from the aligner total toe or individual?
    2. Same for the Peugeot handbook, is that 4.0mm total or individual?

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    A few years ago, the oldest and most experienced Peugeot mechanic in Brisbane, Kev Fane, before he retired told me that although the handbook says about 3 mm toe-in, that in reality he had found that dead parallel was best. So Demannu's .5 mm sounds good.

    I set my GR to dead parallel for 10 years and never had a problem; my SR has also been set at this, and never a problem either.

    I do the alignment by hand with a stick ! Cost : $ zero and half an hours work.

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    +1.0 to 3.0mm is individual. I am assuming that the 4.00mm from the handbook is individual too as it does not specify which and these factory figures are usually given individually I thought. Don't you get inside tyre scrubbing with 0mm toe on a rear wheel drive? I assumed that the aligner would follow factory recommendations - I thought of giving him the specs beforehand but didn't want to seem like I was telling him his job.

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    Interesting info Beano. So no feelings of vagueness with the steering with 0mm toe? Maybe I'll keep the 1.0mm then and keep an eye on the tyres.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nisspug2 View Post
    +1.0 to 3.0mm is individual. I am assuming that the 4.00mm from the handbook is individual too as it does not specify which and these factory figures are usually given individually I thought. Don't you get inside tyre scrubbing with 0mm toe on a rear wheel drive? I assumed that the aligner would follow factory recommendations - I thought of giving him the specs beforehand but didn't want to seem like I was telling him his job.



    If those figures are individual that is just massive.
    I can believe the aligners ones as that would give 2 to 6mm total.
    I'd be amazed if the 4mm in the book is individual, that would allow a 8mm total which is just ridiculous. To me 4mm sounds like total with Pug being conservative to keep the car stable. That would put it smack bang in the middle of the aligners spec.

    Keep what you have and monitor.
    You wear should be fine as long as the rest of your suspension is not flogged out.
    Last edited by LukeK_GT; 29th August 2019 at 08:21 PM. Reason: Spelling

  7. #7
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    Toe out, if you want it to really turn in. Otherswise 0.5mm total toe in is probably the most sensible.

    '92 205 Mi16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Toe out, if you want it to really turn in. Otherswise 0.5mm total toe in is probably the most sensible.
    Would you please enlighten us with the theory behind the first sentence?

    Ta! Peter

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    https://www.quora.com/How-is-toe-in-...in-automobiles

    "Toe out, at least in the front, causes the car to want to be 'all over the place', it won't be good at holding the line, it will wallow across the road and need constant adjusting. Bad for the road, good for the racing, since this instability gives you a sharper turn-in response, the car will be easier to turn into the corner. Toe-out in the rear would give similar results, but with the rear end being the more unstable part of the car, which would be even worse on the road.

    As said, toe out is beneficial when racing due to quicker turn-in and also because of the slight compliance in the suspension - you can set up the driven axle with some toe out and when under full acceleration, the compliance will modify the geometry to no toe or slight toe in, therefore giving you the stability. When going off-throttle before the corner, the toe-out geometry will be restored."

    '92 205 Mi16
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    Yes well maybe I have been mistaking the total for the individual figures. That would then make sense but look at the chart in the third post in the thread below - it shows a spec for a S2 505 as 6.1mm +/- 2.1mm which would equate to 4 to 8.2mm total toe. And Demannu says here that he uses a figure of +6mm +/-1mm on his 505 wagon.
    S2 505 Front Camber question

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nisspug2 View Post
    Interesting info Beano. So no feelings of vagueness with the steering with 0mm toe? Maybe I'll keep the 1.0mm then and keep an eye on the tyres.
    No vagueness, and great wear, in both my GR and SR.....both series 1.

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    Thanks Beano. Good to know.

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    +1 mm individual, +2 mm total is the best setting, we have tried everything from -2mm total to + 4mm total. Peter, I think that for RWD negative makes it difficult to drive because, contrary to FWD, it becomes even more negative at speed. It is worth noting that rear toe has a far greater effect on the driveability/speed of the 504, +3 mm total and 2 degrees negative camber have the car cornering on rails. You can adjust those by using shims behind the bearing carriers.
    BIGRR likes this.

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    Interesting Thanos. I may have hit the ideal toe-in by sheer accident. You're talking about a 505? I just found an old post of yours about shimming the rear bearing carrier to adjust toe and camber. Very helpful stuff.

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    I forgot to post a link to that thread:

    505 GTi rear suspension

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    Quote Originally Posted by nisspug2 View Post
    Interesting Thanos... You're talking about a 505? ...
    The 504 and 505 have the same suspension system, so the same parameters apply.

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    Yes but I thought the increased weight and longer wheelbase of the 505 might come into it. But I just checked and the 505 wheelbase is only 3mm longer than the 504 so all good. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    https://www.quora.com/How-is-toe-in-...in-automobiles

    "Toe out, at least in the front, causes the car to want to be 'all over the place', it won't be good at holding the line, it will wallow across the road and need constant adjusting. Bad for the road, good for the racing, since this instability gives you a sharper turn-in response, the car will be easier to turn into the corner. Toe-out in the rear would give similar results, but with the rear end being the more unstable part of the car, which would be even worse on the road.

    As said, toe out is beneficial when racing due to quicker turn-in and also because of the slight compliance in the suspension - you can set up the driven axle with some toe out and when under full acceleration, the compliance will modify the geometry to no toe or slight toe in, therefore giving you the stability. When going off-throttle before the corner, the toe-out geometry will be restored."
    Thanks for that link. Other demands on my time meant that I just read it.

    All very interesting but it does but tell me that toe-out aids turn in response, not why it does; so my question stands.

    cheers! Peter

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