Building a nice turbo peugeot engine
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Building a nice turbo peugeot engine

    here is the plan i gave the go ahead to, might splash out on cams and double springs tho

    I'll put some pics up soon, but the standard rods are HUGE!!! The crank is very decent too.

    Well people, want to make a car Peugeot should have made... heres what to do to the engine to start with... enjoy

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    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbopeugeot306
    here is the plan i gave the go ahead to, might splash out on cams and double springs tho

    I'll put some pics up soon, but the standard rods are HUGE!!! The crank is very decent too.

    Well people, want to make a car Peugeot should have made... heres what to do to the engine to start with... enjoy


    Can't quite read the prices.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  3. #3
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    lol, im sure people without broadband are gonna love that

    i can say that the pistons are a grand, and that i can get very good rods, normally for another car, for 900 with only 100 bucks of machining to fit, but the standards are just so big to start with

    the liners are keeping me awake at night, so thin!

    thats why im spashing out on a Motec and engine dyno work
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    Just make sure that they machine the liners properly or you may go through a few sets like me.

    The Venolia pistons are a good choice. They can take a pounding and still stay together.

    That list is very similar to mine, except mine was longer.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbopeugeot306
    the liners are keeping me awake at night, so thin!

    thats why im spashing out on a Motec and engine dyno work
    I'm curious as to how the Motec and dyno work will fix the problems of thin overbored liners?

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    I think he means by tuning it well he shouldn't have any problems.

    But that doesn't really help the fact that with a decent amount of boost the cylinder pressures will be high putting a lot of stress on the liners.

  7. #7
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    i looked at the features of the Motec M4 Pro and they ae bloody good and so cheap.... 2600 for the ecu

    it has individual cylinder trim and heaps of compensation for everything
    and yep, myt205, hit thenail on the head..... heaps and heaps of fine tuning and the engine run-in being done on a engine dyno

    i'll put up a pic soon of the liners when i got down there this week, when i first saw them i almost fainted.... they are as thick as tin cans

    plans are to limit boost to approx. 20psi and let NOS take it to the desired figure of 500hp, so it runs as 350hp when i drive it normally and 500 down the strip and track

    the block was going to be filled up with grout to hold the liners together, we even looked in the USA to see if i could have custom liners made up, but they are too close to the oil galleries on the side of the block...

    oh, and LeMans series control fuel is the only petrol going into the egine... just to be sure

    meanwhile i've got a massive hole that i can jump into and rip out all the air-con and power steering... FINALLY!

    and just so it doesnt need to be said again, lol, yes im going to carry a spare set of driveshafts around whenever i go anywhere
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  8. #8
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    BTW MYT205, what were the additional things you did? hope i didnt miss much out when i was cost cutting
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbopeugeot306
    the block was going to be filled up with grout to hold the liners together, we even looked in the USA to see if i could have custom liners made up, but they are too close to the oil galleries on the side of the block...

    meanwhile i've got a massive hole that i can jump into and rip out all the air-con and power steering... FINALLY!

    and just so it doesnt need to be said again, lol, yes im going to carry a spare set of driveshafts around whenever i go anywhere
    That was going to be my next question, but if the oil galleries come close that counts it out. Distortion was a problem with un-boosted big bore Renault's, so I hate to think what would happen with a hairdryer!

    Also driveshafts, now they would be an issue with 500bhp. Try this place, its in the States so they probably don't know Pugs, but they may be able to offer a solution. I can't think of anything worse than a weak link in the chain, also I reckon the old gearbox would need a tad of help too.

    http://www.driveshaftshop.com/

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    I know a guy who is getting a custom made gearbox for his 1st Generation Civic.

    It is currently the fastest fwd in Australia on street tyres at 12.6.

    His gearbox is costing him approx $8500 with a custom LSD.

  11. #11
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    i wont blink if the hollinger im after costs around $7000

    simply i need it.... no LSD though, the alfa 147GTA doesnt have one, and my car wont have one... easy


    i think im going to look in australia for custom driveshafts... those in the states look a bit pricey

    distortion...
    how was it being caused?
    by excess heat?
    high rpm?

    BTW i want this pulling low 11's but a 10 would be good...
    probably have to be on slicks

    its gonna be pretty funny seeing a french car in the top 10...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbopeugeot306
    i wont blink if the hollinger im after costs around $7000

    simply i need it.... no LSD though, the alfa 147GTA doesnt have one, and my car wont have one... easy
    Ooookaayy. What horsepower does an Alfa 147 put through the front wheels? With your proposed 380 odd bhp, and certainly 500bhp with nitrous and turbo I'd say one would be a must..... Then again I've never done anything similar and I'm no engineer, so my opinion could be wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by turbopeugeot306

    distortion...
    how was it being caused?
    by excess heat?
    high rpm?
    Compression pressure, also can be caused by re-tensioning the head after it has been off for say a head gasket replacement and the liners have "settled". But it only happens with the thin "competition" liners, my thoughts are that originally the motors were probably only expected to have limited lives anyhow, probably being rebuilt regularly. Also the example I know are Renault's, Pugs could be different again, especially custom jobs.
    Last edited by Simon; 31st May 2004 at 10:38 PM. Reason: Spilling mistake

  13. #13
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    pug 306's are strange... good strange tho

    you really dont need an lsd if the chassis is good enough, then you dont have the LSD effects... some people like it... some people dont

    im not going to chase after traction control for the same reason... if there was a switch, it would always be off

    the alfa puts out 250hp... a 3.2 V6 i think... very nice factory engine, like a ferrari... almost artistic

    as for the head gasket, the builders are paying special attention to it... its going to be a copper one i think... because its reusable

    but what you said about the liners has methinking... i wanted to wait a while then do the camshaft and springs... but if taking the head off after getting this work done is going to cause my liners to distort, i might have to do it all now... is this true?


    first thoughts were going to set the compression between 8.0 and 8.5
    i've heard that anything lower is silly

    i really wana get some pics of the internals on here though... i'll try around wednesday
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  14. #14
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    You don't have the slightest chance in hell of running a decent time without an LSD. With that much power you will just wheelspin like crazy. It is ESSENTIAL.

  15. #15
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    I'm a little 'conservative', but if your going to do it why not go the whole hog and do it properly. If you really want a big horse power front wheel drive with racing aspirations talk to quaife about one of these:

    Six Speed Front Wheel Drive Sequential Gearbox


    Straight cut gears with open face dog engagement
    Additional shaft support bearings for extra strength
    More compact design allows easier installation
    Differential accessed through separate cover for quick servicing
    QUAIFE ATB or plate type differentials
    Compact drum type sequential design for even faster gear shift
    Range of detachable bellhousings from stock or manufactured as required
    Driveshafts made to suit your installation (from 195 each)
    Large choice of gear and final drive ratios
    Supplied with extension shafts and tube for equal driveshaft lengths
    100mm or 108mm output flanges fitted
    Digital gear position display available
    Remote gear lever with various length operating cables

    Will cost a proper small fortune, but i'm guessing that engine isn't cheap.

  16. #16
    Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYT205
    You don't have the slightest chance in hell of running a decent time without an LSD. With that much power you will just wheelspin like crazy. It is ESSENTIAL.
    He doesn't have the slightest idea of anything he is talking about. "i want this pulling low 11's but a 10 would be good... probably have to be on slicks" Really, do you think? "im not going to chase after traction control for the same reason... if there was a switch, it would always be off" Motec M4 Pro has a traction control feature. I know because I have that EMS.

    Chasing 500hp. You must have very big wrists. Because when you've finished tugging, you will need the other to control the torque steer.

    Cal.

    PS Good luck with the project.
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  17. #17
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    im thinking of putting it into different improved production races, mostly in SA, but the rules are that there can only be 5 forward facing gears etc.

    need an lsd... the 306 is set up well enough to not NEED an lsd... people say im wrong, but cal, soz mate... but i dont think you have any idea what you are talking about

    i've been driving the car with 189hp atw for quite a while now, almost NEVER does one wheel spin more than the other, apart from cornering with hard throttle

    under straight line acceleration there has been no problem so far... laid two big lines down rundle street, so both were spinning, and when i took my tyres off the other week both had the same wear...


    for people who still cant understand why not to put an lsd, or who say it needs it, jump on KAZZAA downloader and download the BBC - Top Gear (with Jeremy Clarkson) the episode with the new Alfa 147GTA

    expensive car... 250hp of factory power... if it were essential why didnt they?

    the new focus RS (the turbo fwd one) had an lsd that may work well at high speed and acceleration, but driving at anything else than flat out causes the car to weave all over the road...

    The motec has traction control... IF you have ABS so it can use the same sensors.... im not chasing up on how to make it work on my non-abs because i've no need 4 it

    whef.... almost there lol

    ok now back to the "yeah try to control it with 500hp..."

    turbo.... 350hp for "normal" driving
    NOS..... aprox 500hp only for the strip

    torque steer this and torque steer that.... people reading this, im going to settle another myth...

    the ONLY time i've experienced torque steer was the only time i've pushed the car REALLY hard against an R1.... well im not gonna lie and say i flogged it... it flogged me and then pulled a mono, but the only torque steer i got ended in pulling me half a lane over more than a hundred metres...

    images in some amatures heads are putting th throttle down and ending up in a tree

    in all honesty the '96 M3 i drove was harder to keep in a straight line when launching

    make no mistake... people like cal might be trying to play down improving pugs, but go for it if you have the money and wont miss it very much



    oh to end with.... i went to that web site where they sell rally prep. equipment for pugs and they had the rally sequential box there for 15K AUD aprox.
    now thats a bit of a silly price..
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  18. #18
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    i think thats my longest post.... wait... i'll get a ruler


    and no cock jokes
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  19. #19
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    how green with envy is CAL?

    (from just reading his fustrated comments)


    --------> this green?
    --------> this green?
    --------> this green?
    --------> this green?
    --------> k, i just wanted to finally use that one


    vote now, calls cost 50c
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

  20. #20
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    far out we're a critical bunch on here!!

    no words of encouragement at all...

    good on you 306! hope it all works out for you. i hope you get your 500hp.

    im not gonna tell you youre doing anything right or wrong, you should be happy that youre at least doing something.

    i wanna see the photos of your first big cloud of smoke tho.

    i think its healthy to have a dream.



    ps. i also wouldve liked to use its the first time ive realised it was there!
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    there are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots..

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! winnie's Avatar
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    I'm not being critical, i'm trying to be helpful (share the knowledge and all that)
    An LSD of some description would make a considerable difference to lap times that involve corners, particularily with the sort of power you are aiming for.

  22. #22
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    OK

    First off 306! Good times, good cars i like it! But now about the LSD thing:

    I have 2 friends with "fully sick" VL Turbos, one has an LSD and one doesnt. They both have almost identical modifcations done to the engine and drive train. The car with the LSD creates less power than the car without the LSD and still does a better quater mile time. The way i see it is if you have a LSD then your getting more gip because 2 wheels are gripping instead of one. Also both of these VL's only have a 15kW difference in power and they are still 0.4 of a second apart down the track, both drivers have driven each others car and they always get the same results. My is that if you got the cash, then get the LSD if you dont then dont worry man! But anyways ill be on the lookout for your car on your website and stuff. Keep up the good work on the frog!

    Cheers
    Last edited by sproose16v; 1st June 2004 at 09:48 PM.
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  23. #23
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    The reason so many BE1/BE3 equipped motorsport Pugs have LSD's is because of the weak sun gears. Even 160hp can destroy them. They make a big mess of the case when they let go. Just ask Darren.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  24. #24
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    I think your project sounds crazy good whether or not it's feasable who knows! just give it a crack and we'll soon find out...if I had the dough I'd go fully sik on my pug aswell!!! Keep up the good work and post us some pics!
    FOR SALE 1995 PEUGEOT 306S16

  25. #25
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    ok here we go....


    peoples, going in a straight line with my current diff both wheels get equal torque, and exactly the same with and lsd

    when going around a corner and the inside tyre starts to spin, the lsd transmits torque from the spinning wheel to the one with grip...

    without an lsd, the same amount of torque is transmitted to the tyre with grip... keeping grip on the outside tyre....

    with the huge amount of torque there is going to be... when going around a corner, if the inside tyre starts to cook, the huge amount of extra torque from the inside wheel wont be transfered to the outside wheel... this stops massive understeer caused by both wheels spinning

    slower around a track without an lsd... yes, but its safer without one... with different charactaristics

    im going to look into having the diff built strong... but still stubborn not to have a lsd
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peugeot 306, garrett GT25 turbo, 3" exhaust, microtech LT8 ECU, 16.7 psi, front mount cooler, Chris Milton race port&polish w/ 3 angle cut valves and redesigned combustion chamber, 186hp atw for now... injectors ran out of puff
    NOS COMING SOON!

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