Gearbox crunch question
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Thread: Gearbox crunch question

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! flock's Avatar
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    Default Gearbox crunch question

    So I've had my 205 on the road for over a year now. Still has it's original BE1 box, but I installed a shorter L-linkage and never adjusted the new linkage rods as they seemed to fit fine in neutral.

    It tends to randomly crunch upshifting and downshifting in 3rd and 4th. Double-clutching seems to be the only way to prevent it, but I'm no seasoned truck driver. Blipping the throttle is hit and miss and I don't even bother with passive down-shifting 3rd and 4th anymore.

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    It also crunches changing to reverse quickly. Even at a complete standstill I have to very slowly change to reverse and feel the gears engage through my hands. Not sure if this is related.

    Apart from synchro's is there anything that could be causing it only in 3rd and 4th?

    Cheers,
    Lach

  2. #2
    COL
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    Could be your clutch is not disengaging properly
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    Regards Col

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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    He's asking if there is anything that would specifically show up only in 3rd/4th apart from synchro rings.

    The crunching in reverse when standing still points at a dragging clutch as Col has suggested already, but that's going to show across the range unless you happen to always rev match second and fifth. That would be an interesting fluke but I don't know your gear shifting habits or g'box ratios.

    Why would you downshift 4th to 3rd? Passively or otherwise?

    Did the car have these problems before you changed the linkage?
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 20th September 2018 at 12:46 AM.
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    Fellow Frogger! flock's Avatar
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    Thanks for the late night replies guys!

    If the synchros weren't on the way out, they sure are now! I do vaguely remember adjusting my clutch cable a while back and it made a difference but within a day my mate burnt it out trying to reverse and the bite point sank back down another inch or 2

    If I try adjusting the cable again should I be tightening the cable or loosening it?

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    There you go.

    Any cable works by pulling because it can't push. Hence you need to tension it. But you need to have a look at the pedal end and 'box end to make sure it is not pulling out of the ends.

    You didn't say why you need to downshift.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  6. #6
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    You didn't say why you need to downshift.
    I'm confused - is this a trick question? Surely there are any number of reasons why you would want to downshift from 4th to 3rd. Slowing traffic conditions? Terrain? Extra poke to overtake?

    As for the original question, a dragging clutch will put more load on your synchros. If 1st/2nd are in good shape, shift quality might be good, while 3rd/4th could be weaker. Your mention of your friend 'burning the clutch while reversing' and the 'bite point dropping' two inches tells me that your clutch is worn out. A worn out clutch will often not disengage properly either.

    I think the solution would be to replace your clutch, preferably before it does any more damage to your synchros. I'd consider replacing the synchros while the box is out, too.
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    Fellow Frogger! flock's Avatar
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    The car certainly appreciates every gear driving to Arana Hills! Though most of the time you can go from 2nd to 5th and cruise at 50 the ratios are that low.

    Lucky I've got another box lying around with new bearings, attached to another engine with a new clutch.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I don't think it's the synchro rings. I could be wrong, but I think it's a broken detent spring, as the same happened to mine. Contact Adrian Wuillemin.

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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flock View Post
    The car certainly appreciates every gear driving to Arana Hills! Though most of the time you can go from 2nd to 5th and cruise at 50 the ratios are that low.

    Lucky I've got another box lying around with new bearings, attached to another engine with a new clutch.

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    I see. My car doesn't like downshifts very much either, so you have to be good with it. BE1 box as well.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Fellow Frogger! flock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    I don't think it's the synchro rings. I could be wrong, but I think it's a broken detent spring, as the same happened to mine. Contact Adrian Wuillemin.
    Do you mean this spring Peter?

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    Given the crunch into reverse, as well as the other symptoms, Iíd say itís the clutch spring plate. This means you canít fully disengage the clutch. Every clutch Iíve ever replaced has failed in this way rather than slipping. If itís this it will slowly get worse, and first will be hard to get into as well eventually. James.


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    Fellow Frogger! flock's Avatar
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    Well looks like I will be taking this gearbox off, either way. Does anybody have any pro tips on removing and refitting the gearbox?

    On my last car I dropped it out and lifted it back in on a crane but I struggled with maneuvering amongst the bodywork as you have to twist it to clear the Diff while fitting it in the battery tray and finally onto the input shaft. Should I be removing the battery tray this time?

    Once again, thanks for your help.

  13. #13
    Member jech's Avatar
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    Might be easier to drop the engine & gearbox as one, and separate whilst out? Makes it easier to line up the clutch on reassembly too. Others on here must have done this hundreds of times...


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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I did it both ways. It works either way if you take your time and go easy taking as much as you can out of the way. If you suspend the engine from the factory lifting points, it will tilt exactly as much as needed to go in the correct position. You will need a jack to lift the g'box to its mount from underneath, but you probably knew that already.

    Your flywheel might need a reface as well.

    As a matter of course, I inspect the rear main seal when I have engines out and fix problems if any.

    Not to mention if you think you need a cam belt job.

    And that's how one job becomes fifteen.
    JohnW likes this.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
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    No that is not the spring Peter means - it is the energizer spring which lives in among the synchro hub.

    If removing the gearbox in the car take the speedo drive housing off before removing the gearbox, makes it heaps easier
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    Adrian Wuillemin

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