Series 1 Mi16 Performace Tips
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  1. #1
    Member SmothePeanut's Avatar
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    Default Series 1 Mi16 Performace Tips

    Howdy,
    I am the happy owner of a series 1 405 Mi16. I am looking into performance mods, but unsure where to go. I will ge the usual done like exhaust etc. Does anyone know if tehre are any better exhaust manifold hangin about? Or are they good as is? What about ECU's? Worth the trouble? Internals? And finally th almighty turbo? I am guess about 10k to get it done properly. I know this sounds tuff but i am a regualr driver so i dont want to put the car under heaps of pressure, but a little more power would be sweet. Any adivce or who to see for advice on starting to build-up the pug would be great.
    BTW i live in Brisbane.
    Thanks in advance
    Owen


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    Cal
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    Have you seen the exhaust manifold? It is a work of art. I am fairly sure the 300hp 2L touring cars didn't even change that. Put a new high flow cat with a 2.25-2.5" cat back system on it. Get one of Peter T's cams. The results are showing 15% increase in power for $250. Then put Koni yellows with Eibach springs on it. Get a set of slotted rotors and run good brake fluid. Get a set of 16" wheels with stcky rubber. Finally come for a run across the mountains with us or come to a track day.

    Cheers,

    Cal.

    PS Welcome to Aussie Frogs.
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmothePeanut
    Howdy,
    I am the happy owner of a series 1 405 Mi16. I am looking into performance mods, but unsure where to go. I will ge the usual done like exhaust etc. Does anyone know if tehre are any better exhaust manifold hangin about? Or are they good as is? What about ECU's? Worth the trouble? Internals? And finally th almighty turbo? I am guess about 10k to get it done properly. I know this sounds tuff but i am a regualr driver so i dont want to put the car under heaps of pressure, but a little more power would be sweet. Any adivce or who to see for advice on starting to build-up the pug would be great.
    BTW i live in Brisbane.
    Thanks in advance
    Owen
    Hi Owen,

    Peter T is the man to talk to about affordable mods. $250 for a new inlet cam (15% more power), I can't wait to get one in mine. I thinking about the turbo idea in my Mi too, but I doubt it would be that $$$$, If you did the work yourself (mostly), might be able to do it for 2k

    cheers
    Dave
    78 Fiat X1/9, Peugeot 406 ST, Peugeot 407 V6 SW

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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Do a search on the Forum too coz there's a lot of posts in the archives where we've spoken about the 16v engine.

    Then like the guys said contact PeterT for a cam. Get a polish and port. Definately look at the springs like Cal said. The brake fluid and rotors. The rubber. I've recently installed an adjustable fuel reg on my car and have found that the engine is happier. Has anyone done this to the 16v eng yet?

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    luca, my s16 has a rising rate fuel press. regulator (melpaso).....i m not sure wether it has made any diff...as it was on the car when i bought it....maybe thats why it sings so well??? Maybe somebody who knows can enlighten us??
    As for PeterT cam ....well the man knows what he s talking about so u can t really go wrong there...his advice on this forum has always been well balanced
    and educational....i also found the pumaracing site educational....




    cheers
    dino


  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    It definately makes a difference... the thing i don't get is the way the fuel flows out of the fuel rail at 2 bar then hits the fuel reg and flows into the can at 3.5 bar. I thought the pressure would be fed into the fuel rail at 3.5 bar either that or is the can pressurised?

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    Fellow Frogger! JAG80's Avatar
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    I've heard that the 16v can easily accomodate significantly larger valves, giving a decent increase in horsepower and torque throughout the range, without loss of low end as you might with a race cam. I think the intake and exhaust are pretty good as standard and first mods should be to the head as you guys suggest. Anyone know anything about fitting bigger valves and what it would cost? Would this be done anyway if a new cam was fitted?

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAG80
    I've heard that the 16v can easily accomodate significantly larger valves, giving a decent increase in horsepower and torque throughout the range, without loss of low end as you might with a race cam. I think the intake and exhaust are pretty good as standard and first mods should be to the head as you guys suggest. Anyone know anything about fitting bigger valves and what it would cost? Would this be done anyway if a new cam was fitted?
    The Malpassi regulator definitely makes a difference, even if set at the same pressure at stock.

    The larger valves are a waste of time, until you get to 250+hp. The best advice for the head is good three angle seats. A std. Mi16 inlet port flows approx. 290cfm, as against 150 for an 8V port with three angle seats. The only justification for larger valves would be that the seats are damaged. Fitting larger valves also creates other problems not specifically mentioned on the Puma site, such as shrouding. Big valves are big dollars, $45 each + $11 per seat to fit them, assuming the guides are OK.

    So long as you've get good compression, like 180psi+ per cylinder, I'd just go with the regulator and inlet cam.

    '92 205 Mi16
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    Fellow Frogger! JAG80's Avatar
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    Sounds good. I might have to go do a search now and read up on this. I can sense some spending going on in the not too distant future!

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    Fellow Frogger! kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAG80
    I've heard that the 16v can easily accomodate significantly larger valves, giving a decent increase in horsepower and torque throughout the range, without loss of low end as you might with a race cam. I think the intake and exhaust are pretty good as standard and first mods should be to the head as you guys suggest. Anyone know anything about fitting bigger valves and what it would cost? Would this be done anyway if a new cam was fitted?
    Having done the full port and polish and fitted the larger inlet valves I can tell you don't bother. The trouble with the Puma site is that it based on the UK spec 160Bhp motor with the higher comp. Our motors don't gain anything from these mods. If youre looking at doing something, then Peters cam is a good start, giving you 15% for $250, the best bang for bucks IMHO. If youre still keen to spend money then raising the compression by getting a new piston liner kit or decking the block is the way to go. That will give you the 160 Bhp + whatever the cam gives you, assuming the same 15%, or just a shy over 180Bhp.

    Have a look at this thread if you havent already. It has the dynos that were done on my car.

    Mi16 Mods

    Good luck and keep us posted.

    Ky

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser
    Having done the full port and polish and fitted the larger inlet valves I can tell you don't bother. The trouble with the Puma site is that it based on the UK spec 160Bhp motor with the higher comp. Our motors don't gain anything from these mods. If youre looking at doing something, then Peters cam is a good start, giving you 15% for $250, the best bang for bucks IMHO. If youre still keen to spend money then raising the compression by getting a new piston liner kit or decking the block is the way to go. That will give you the 160 Bhp + whatever the cam gives you, assuming the same 15%, or just a shy over 180Bhp.

    Have a look at this thread if you havent already. It has the dynos that were done on my car.

    Mi16 Mods

    Good luck and keep us posted.

    Ky

    kaiser,

    Are you gonna take advantage of PeterT's high comp piston offer?

    After having gone to the effort & expense of working over the head,you need a return on your investment.


    Jeff
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! KRISKARRERA's Avatar
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    Dump the cat and convert is to European D6C spec.
    405 MI16
    170bhp
    Le lion va de la force la force!

  13. #13
    Cal
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    Ummm that's a criminal offense in Australia.

    Cal.
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    Fellow Frogger! KRISKARRERA's Avatar
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    Yeah unfortunately. When our run of 1.9 Mi16s ended and we got the 2 litre version that obviously had to have a catalyst by then, it was a bit of a come down. But I imagine that if anything the 2 litre feels more gutsy than your 1.9's??
    405 MI16
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    Le lion va de la force la force!

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=SmothePeanut]Howdy,
    I am the happy owner of a series 1 405 Mi16. I am looking into performance mods[QUOTE]

    We havent mentioned lightening the fly wheel... it's not for an increase in Kw but does help the thing rev quicker.

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    We havent mentioned lightening the fly wheel... it's not for an increase in Kw but does help the thing rev quicker.
    Luca,

    The Mi16 flywheel is already pretty light at 5-6kgs, with not much scope to remove metal with compromising its strength.

    Jeff
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6
    kaiser,

    Are you gonna take advantage of PeterT's high comp piston offer?

    After having gone to the effort & expense of working over the head,you need a return on your investment.


    Jeff
    Jeff

    I though long and hard about it and decided not to mainly because due to the age of the engine (225000k) I'd probably have to look at doing the liners as well, although there wasn't any real sign of wear when we did the rings, it would make sense to do them at the same time. Also as I shaved the head by 20 thou and have the larger valves, I was worried about the valve to piston clearance. Lastly I'd have to pay someone to do the work for me as I would not trust myself to have the skill to do it properly, so the cost would be significantly more than I could justify at this stage. I would certainly like to do something late down the track, but at the moment will just be happy to fix the mixture problem I have at high revs.

    What have you done to yours to get the 147 atw?

    Ky

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRISKARRERA
    Dump the cat and convert is to European D6C spec.
    Waste of time. Dumping the cat does nothing.(So I'm told )

    Ky

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser
    Jeff

    I though long and hard about it and decided not to mainly because due to the age of the engine (225000k) I'd probably have to look at doing the liners as well, although there wasn't any real sign of wear when we did the rings, it would make sense to do them at the same time. Also as I shaved the head by 20 thou and have the larger valves, I was worried about the valve to piston clearance. Lastly I'd have to pay someone to do the work for me as I would not trust myself to have the skill to do it properly, so the cost would be significantly more than I could justify at this stage. I would certainly like to do something late down the track, but at the moment will just be happy to fix the mixture problem I have at high revs.

    What have you done to yours to get the 147 atw?

    Ky

    It would be crazy to dismantle it again until something goes wrong (which could be another 225k).

    Also, having it off the road again isn't ideal either-these cars were made to be driven!

    As for mine, most of the work is in the head-

    36mm inlets in s/steel
    30mm exh in s/steel
    3 angle valve seats
    ports opened up & enlarged to 41.5mm
    Camtech reprofiled cams 232 dur @ .050"
    300cc injectors
    48mm quad t/bodies
    custom 8-2-1 2 1/2" exhaust
    MoTeC ecu.

    Other stuff has been done to keep reliable, like alum radiator, oil cooler, baffled sump, etc, & now a lsd.

    I'm in on PeterT's forged piston deal, so I should be able to get some more bang out of it shortly.


    Jeff
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

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    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    And the sound..... Jeff you forgot to mention the sound.......

  21. #21
    Cal
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    I love when people come, ask for advice and never return.

    Cal.
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca
    And the sound..... Jeff you forgot to mention the sound.......

    Ahh yes, the sound.....

    bbbbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.wav


    Jeff
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  23. #23
    Tadpole Pug 205 TT16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser
    Waste of time. Dumping the cat does nothing.(So I'm told )
    Umm yeah it does I had a 2l Mi16 in my 205 (in the UK) and due to the age I didn't require a CAT. I came up against some '92 Pug's using a more recent 2l (S16 and latter 405 lumps) and mine definately outperformed them. The only real difference between my cars and theirs was me running a Magnex Racing exhaust and K&N Air Filter. No other engine mods. Was using Koni adjustables on the car too. They were running filters too plus the S16 lump had a strange aftermarket exhaust and the other used a Magnex too.

    Can't say for definate it was the CAT but I know removing it from the S16 gives it a 5-10% power increase (figures form Peugeot Sport as they have the fake CAT interpipe for them).

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug 205 TT16
    Umm yeah it does I had a 2l Mi16 in my 205 (in the UK) and due to the age I didn't require a CAT. I came up against some '92 Pug's using a more recent 2l (S16 and latter 405 lumps) and mine definately outperformed them. The only real difference between my cars and theirs was me running a Magnex Racing exhaust and K&N Air Filter. No other engine mods. Was using Koni adjustables on the car too. They were running filters too plus the S16 lump had a strange aftermarket exhaust and the other used a Magnex too.

    Can't say for definate it was the CAT but I know removing it from the S16 gives it a 5-10% power increase (figures form Peugeot Sport as they have the fake CAT interpipe for them).
    There must be one hell of a flow restriction in the standard cat on an S16 if removing it is going to give you 5-10%. Thats almost as much of an increase as one of those resistors you can buy on E bay, and almost as believable.

    I'm sure your car out performed the others, but drivers skill, gearing or weight might have had more to do with that than just a cat removal. Your suspension might have been a difference too.


    Ky

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    ...i dont know about the s16......but a 205 gti minus cat is NOTICABLY more powerfull than one with cat....revs out even quicker and definitely punchier....mine GTi used to loose traction quite easy but without cat it was ceartinly a lot easier to smoke them up....i d say an easy 5% more power...it actually feels like more but i dont want to come across as being delusional...


    cheers

    dino


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