Problem bleeding 406 brakes
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Thread: Problem bleeding 406 brakes

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Default Problem bleeding 406 brakes

    Hi folks,
    I do not seem to be able to bleed my 406 front brakes and I can only come to the conclusion that the flexible hoses have collapsed internally.

    I have taken out the bleeder nipples and they allow free flow when I blow through them. But even with a nipple removed entirely, I cannot push down the pedal more than it usually goes down.
    I have also tried to do it all with the engine running in case the ABS system has something to do with it.

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    But no go.

    Is there any odd technicality that may be causing this, including my fatheadedness ?

    The braking has appeared to be rather crap for a while. Front hoses internally collapsed and only rear brakes working ?

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    Probably need to look in manual for how to bleed a 406 ABS system
    Some require specific sequence

    A Peugeot example https://www.drive2.com/l/8713766/

  3. #3
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    To do it properly, I believe you need to have (air) pressure applied to the top of the brake fluid reservoir, and manage the whole process with PP2000/Diagbox. Bleeding the ABS unit (& ESP if fitted) takes a LOT of fluid.

    Cheers

    Alec

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    I just want to bleed the front brakes. And I seem to remember doing it a few years ago.

    With the bleeder nipples open (and even unscrewed totally) there must be enough pressure going to the caliper for fluid to squirt out of the holes. It's downstream from all that ABS stuff !

    I'm going to order a couple of hoses.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beano View Post
    I just want to bleed the front brakes. And I seem to remember doing it a few years ago.

    With the bleeder nipples open (and even unscrewed totally) there must be enough pressure going to the caliper for fluid to squirt out of the holes. It's downstream from all that ABS stuff !

    I'm going to order a couple of hoses.
    Loosen the fitting on the other end of the hose and check for fluid to confirm your diagnosis.

    Check with your local brake specialist how much it will cost to make new hoses locally.

    Often it's cheaper than OEM or overseas replacements.

    And you get the new hoses immediately.
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  6. #6
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    $55 last ones I had made. And they are NEW, any hose problems are fixable just down the road etc. I'd never buy hoses OS again.
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    JohnW

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  7. #7
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    Hi,
    If I suspected a hose, I would at least take one off first to try to blow through it. My immediate feeling is that it is hard to imagine a flexible hose blocking so strongly that a brake system could not force fluid through. That would be quite some blockage. Also seems unlikely to happen to two hoses at the same time. Think you would probably know all about it if you had no front brakes... That wouldn't be much better than having no brakes.

    My 2c worth anyway..

    Andy
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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    ^ I see your point....but I think that pressure might also cause them to close up, mightn't it ?

    The stopping power is in fact crap.

    I've actually just lent the car to a friend who really needs it to travel a short distance to work and back (leaves very early so can't get public transport), with the proviso that he drives like an old woman and keeps his distance from cars ahead.

    So in spite of the best course of action being that I should take off a hose and see if it's clear, I cannot.
    What I have done is order a pair of hoses from Ken (ex-Caravelle) who is selling them for $ 38 each, plus GST........which is very reasonable.

    Oddly, a couple of thimbles full of fluid did come out of one side when I attempted to bleed, then stopped.

    Anyhow, if the problem is in fact the hoses, I intend to dissect them after removal and post the photos here
    for our elucidation
    Last edited by Beano; 15th May 2018 at 12:04 PM.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    It's a very common issue, old brake hoses nearly all suffer from tuberculosis.

    It is made worse by constant flexing.

    I'm predicting you will find the inner hose has separated from the outer hose and the nylon braid is squeezing the hose shut.

    404 hoses between the torque tube and body nearly always close up. I usually have the 4004 TT hose remade in braided line, simply because braided hoses are more robust.

    EDIT: FWIW I'd consider other brake hoses on the car as suspect as well and would give favorable consideration to replacing them too.

    I've had experience of sudden, catastrophic front brake failure in my TCR11 Tarago, which resulted in some unwanted landscaping of roundabout median.

    Which I considered a better alternative to a collision with another vehicle.
    Last edited by robmac; 15th May 2018 at 12:26 PM.
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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    For $160 per pair, you can have ADR approved braided hose that will dramatically change the feel in your brake pedal.
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Really ? Do you mean that brakes would feel less spongy (if they did in fact feel that way previously) ??

    I've already paid for 2 hoses but I'm now interested in the difference between braided and ordinary, for another car. I can understand them being more robust, but.....

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    Yep, less spongy. I fitted them to my 306 XSi and was staggered at the difference. It must mean that the standard hose can swell to a certain degree.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Yep, less spongy. I fitted them to my 306 XSi and was staggered at the difference. It must mean that the standard hose can swell to a certain degree.
    I'd support that. I had braided hoses made for the R8 by one of the Perth brake places and it was a definite improvement. I wrapped my hand around each hose in turn, while Geckoeng applied the brakes, and could feel one old hose change shape slightly. The hoses looked fine on the outside but were failing structurally, invisibly. Firmer, higher pedal was the outcome.
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    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
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    Peugeot 306 XT 1995 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  14. #14
    Tadpole
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    Easy way to find out where the issue lies is to have someone gentle push the pedal down. If no fluid comes out from the bleeder nipple when it's open then loosen the brake line from the body to the flexible brake hose. If pedal drops easily when that is opened then the blockage is in the flexible brake lines.
    I have recently had a ABS pump jam in the "closed/off" position which caused the rear brakes not to function at all on a 90's Volvo, same style of pump as early 90's Pugs. The test for that is to release the outlet line from the ABS pump, if pedal doesn't drop then release the inlet line to the ABS pump. If pedal drops then the blockage is in the ABS pump.
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