Lighting problem
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Thread: Lighting problem

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    Icon5 Lighting problem

    Hello fellas .
    My 205 series 2 1995 has developed a weird fault on the right front lighting.

    The right front and wing indicator lights dont flash , the rear right flashes at double the rate , ive had all the bulbs out and checked em with a power supply and they all work fine . Ive had the connectors apart and scrapped them with an xacto knife , they all appear to be clean.
    The left side indicators work perfectly !

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    Not only that but also i have no headlight coming on, on the right side, the peanut sidelight yes , main beam yes. Ive had the halogen headlight bulb out and checked both elements light and its perfect !. Again cleaned all contacts and no joy.
    So , has anyone got any ideas about a common factor that may affect both these separate circuits .
    I have suspected the flasher relay, headlight relay the lighting column stalk and the earthing .
    But i,m a bit miffed about this one.
    Any suggestions please.

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    COL
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    At a quick guess I would say you have an earth problem either in the light cluster or bonding to the body work.

    Dismantle clean and reassemble should fix the problem.
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    Regards Col

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    Thanks for confirming one of my worries . Not unreasonable as the vehicle is 23 years old .
    Its just plain odd !

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I've had similar problems with the indicator on the left side and they did not go away even though I had run a separate negative directly to the side earth point where it gets its ground. The problem is the bulb socket. Mine would start working if I punched the light and then go out again in a few minutes (or immediately when driving the car over a bump). You need a new globe socket if you can find one. I guess the contacts lose their springiness and fail to make and keep good contact with the globe. I have cleaned mine ad nauseam, but that is not the problem. They are also something that doesn't oxidise, some sort of plating or material that keeps shiny, I just cleaned them by force of habit. Eventually I put the left and right globe sockets side by side and found the right one was looking like new whereas the left one looked like a 20 year old socket (which it was). You could even feel it in how positively they clipped in the light housing, the left one didn't feel as tight (my indicator housings are both new), so I suspect there had been problems with mine before I got the car.

    Your relay works fine, otherwise you wouldn't see the rapid flashing of the rear light (which is caused by the reduced load on the relay and it's totally normal). Also, flashing wouldn't work on the other side because it's the same relay.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    Hmmm thanks . yes , looks like its take apart and clean time for every contact, earth point and bulb holder and even considering new bulb holders .
    Could even be corroded copper strands in one of the wires ?.

    Thanks again

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 205luv View Post
    Hmmm thanks . yes , looks like its take apart and clean time for every contact, earth point and bulb holder and even considering new bulb holders .
    Could even be corroded copper strands in one of the wires ?.

    Thanks again
    Or all the strands. Very likely. I found nearly every connector in the engine bay had darkened wires, which means you're not sure if they make contact anymore, but cutting off wires to fresh copper and replacing spades is the work of the devil so up to you to tackle it or not. I did replace every wire that had signs of corrosion, but I did have the luxury of a good spare wiring loom. Even so, some of the wires could not be replaced and I had to rewire and decided to switch to Deutsch connectors. Not cheap, but will probably outlast the car. I used silicone grease on all the original connectors I kept.
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Yeah could be heading that way i think , looks like all the fronts going to come off and check every contact and wire integrity, pain in the arse job.

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    What series Deutsch connectors did you use mate and do you need a special insert tool for the blades or pins.
    I must admit some of the wiring on the car is a bit iffy in exposed areas , might be time for a review .

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Don't know about no series, just went into an electrical shop and bought a few three/two/four pin male and female and started replacing. I soldered the wires because I didn't have the proper crimp tool, which is expensive and I didn't want to get the cheap one. Now you can buy Deutsch connectors at Altronics and Jaycar as well, so not a big deal.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Ok thanks for the tip , i will have a look into those connectors they sound good.

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    Mine site compliant, you can only ask NASA for better than that.
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Does anyone have a link to a decent wiring diagram for the 1995 205, mines a diesel but its generally the same i guess . A gremlin has been at work on my under dash fuse board in the past , has stripped the insulation of a skinny orange wire off one of the yellow plug in connectors and wrapped around a purple wire that goes to a silver can relay up front in the plastic relay box to the left of the rad, another problem. An AHOLE definitely had this car before me !!!
    I had both rear lights out and checked the wiring and earth point terminal inside the boot at left rear , all seems ok . looks like i,m going to end up having everything out to inspect it .
    Where are the earth points at the front of the car for the indicators / lighting ie the main termination if any. Vehicle electrics is not my forte.

    Thanks again people

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Get your self a Haynes manual off the web in PDF. That has very good diagrams, including diesel models.

    Here's one:

    http://pdfstream.manualsonline.com/7...e8f8fb1488.pdf
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 205luv View Post
    Ok thanks for the tip , i will have a look into those connectors they sound good.

    Sorry, didn't realise you were not in Australia.

    Here's a link to distributors in Spain:

    TE Connectivity: Every Connection Counts | TE Connectivity
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Thanks for the tips again.
    Yeah long way from you fellas .

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    Anyone still reading this thread ?.

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    COL
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    If you keep posting others here will keep reading.

    How did you go fixing your lighting problem?
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    Glad you asked , well Got rid of the lousy earth tag terminal at the front right next to the radiator, it was put in a venerable place right in line with the alternator belt and the plastic bag cover had had it , it was corroded , so cut the three earth wires for the lights of the yellow connector stripped and cleaned them and soldered them to a short length of domestic earth wire and routed it up to the suspension leg and ring terminal terminated it to a stud thats welded to the leg structure theres a hood switch bolted on that too, but still no joy . However , figured it might be indicator arm so whipped it out , looks ok , sounds ok , checked contacts and cleaned em , couldnt quite figure function of some of the terminals though had the multimeter on em , need to know what terminals on the stalk do what , i know the group of 4 is the main lights and the 6 terminals are the indicators but only 3 of the 6 terminals read continuity , need info on that one !.
    Then the kicker !!! the wifes at the front of the car and the lights are on but NO R/H lights or indicators , SO i pushed the fusebox back up toward the position it resides in and the frigging lights came on and the indicators all worked , lowered it down and they went out , pushed it up and they worked again **&^%$!!! WTF is going on, . So had the fusebox out and inspected it and all the connections , tripple checked all fuses and stuffed it all back together but no lights not even when i push the fusebox back up .
    So this really is a head scratcher . My next line is to by pass the fuse box and get power to the R/H side to prove thats ok again.
    Then identify the R/H wires from the fuse box and trace back till i get a voltage reading somewhere .
    Thats it so far , as for the french blade connectors theyre smaller than regular size so cannot easily substitute , bit of a pain that one , must be someone out there who sells that size .
    This is a pain in the neck job .
    Any bright ideas anyone on that weird fusebox behavior ???.

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    COL
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    I would be looking around that fuse box, sounds like there is a bad joint or two there.

    Look at where the wires connect to the fuse box itself, and also check the connection between the fuse itself and where it plugs into the fuse box.

    As the lights worked when your wife was at the font of the car, I would say all is good there.

    Spend some time checking the fuses and connections associated with the right hand headlight assembly.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1995 Renault Laguna V6
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

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    Thanks for your reply mate .
    Yeah i think thats where this is heading , back to the nest of wires , this is a real cow son of a job . However i,m determined to find the fault !.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I think you have some problems with the connectors to the fusebox. Nasty, but you will have to investigate. Find which connector is the lights block one, pull it out and see what's what.

    You know how to pull it open to check the integrity of the spades inside?

    Also, I would have a look at the plug it connects to. That is not protected from corrosion.

    And by the way, have you inspected the box itself, does it show any signs of water ingress?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    I,ve had the fusebox out yet again and it looks ok , cleaned the contacts with a modelling knife best i could and all seem shiny. Had the back off and theres no dry joints or cracks. I doesnt look corroded .
    All the plug in connectors look fine too. Not sure how to get them apart though , perhaps you could clue me in please.
    Stuffed it all back together and no joy .
    So went to front headlight connector this time and checked earth continuity again, and is good . Switched on headlight and unplugged one by one the connectors on the fusebox which left me with just two connected. Funny how these same two connectors are also associated with the indicators.
    Any how found the brown and grey feed wires that go to the headlights and main beam from the fuseboard and ther,es continuity to the working side but nothing to the right side so its more digging to come . Very weird , could even get to taking the loom apart in some areas to see whats what, perhaps it is corroded wires / earth or a combination of things .

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Alright!

    Good work. Now that you have isolated the suspicious wires, try running jumpers from end to end and see if that helps. If it does, your wires might have internal breakage, which would be consistent with the earlier observation that lights work with the fuse board in one position but not in another.

    Each connector has a hinged part on the wire side, if you look at them carefully you will see the split line and the little tabs you have to push to release and open. That allows access inside so you can pull individual wires out of the connector to replace if need be.

    As you noticed, the spades are undersize, so no available aftermarket spades will fit. To replace a wire, you need an original good wire from some other car with the correct spades at each end, or at least the two ends need to be good so you can cut the wire a couple of cm away from the spade at both ends and solder a good wire in between.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Thanks for reply.
    Yes thats the next step jumpers and step by step , confirm good and move on . If its even remotely suspicious its getting ripped out !.
    I thought i had it nailed some days ago with replacing the spades then found out the french had not stuck with what i call normal dimension connectors. Another one of their quirks i suppose .

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    Mystery solved !!!.
    After removing the front panels , fan , radiator and lights i eventually could see what was going on .
    Couldnt understand why the left headlight wires buzzed through ok to the fusebox connector and the right didnt . So took the loom apart and found wet wires due to the old radiator leaking into the conduit , more doubt . Stripped that loom apart and traced it back to the battery side ie the good light side , found out its two feeds one for each side . Went back to my fuse box diagram i,d drawn and i only showed one connector ie the good side , next to that was an empty slot for another connector !!!. Dug around the loom and buried right up high in the rats nest theres a loose connector i never saw with the brown and grey wires for the headlight , so buzzed it through and presto, it works . Plugged it in and now i have lights , all ok.

    However this problem has shown up some faults:
    Corroded earth points on the radiator bulkhead .
    Plastic bag earthpoint covers falling apart.
    A slight leak on the lower radiator hose.
    Blackened copper strands on earth wiring.
    Blackened copper strands on headlight connector.
    Poorly thought out locations for earth bonding points.
    Poorly thought out location / routing for far side head light and indicator wiring ( under the radiator ).
    Use of what i call non standard size blade connectors.
    Almost burned through main power connector at the battery on the front bulkhead with two 25amp fuses in .
    A busted off brake shoe warning wire.
    And a piece of busted off plastic from an old thermostat housing rattling around in the Radiator.


    So now its a bit of chopping back and rewiring with better connectors and it wont be going back in the inaccessible factory location !.

    Thanks for your help people your points were all noted .

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