205 gti overheating ??
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  1. #1
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    Default 205 gti overheating ??

    The guy down the road asked me what could be wrong with his 205 as he showed me the header tank actually bubbling and making a hell of a racket. Now i know its been hot in Brisbane so we took her for a run....normal speeds at 80kph on a 33C Degree day made the header tank behave like a kettle... i am stuffed to think what it could be as......
    1. new radiator
    2. new coolant
    3. new w/pump
    4. new thermostat
    Temp gauge shows only slightly over normal.
    Fans work fine.

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    Any other ideas i have not thought of?
    jr20516v

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    205 GTi 1.9, Exige SC [modded], 205 Si.


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    Bubbling and temp normal, could it be pushing air?? Dont know if that's possible but just looking at symptoms?
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  3. #3
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    5. Header tank cap ok?
    6. No hoses blocked?

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    Had this problem with a 407 and it was that the two fans were not kicking in when they should have, One needed replacing and it cured the overheating problem.

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    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
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    Get a low temp fan switch...



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  6. #6
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    Head gasket? Corrosion? Pressure cap?

    I'd start with Flash Car 76's suggestion. Run the car at idle to faster engine speed and check at what temperatures the fans come on - consider using one of those infra-red temperature sensor guns to see what the head and hose temperatures are, and the different parts of the radiator. If it is boiling with coolant, it is well over 100 degrees.

    Last time I couldn't fix a problem like this it turned out to be a very small head gasket leak.

    Be interested to hear the outcome, that is for sure.
    JohnW

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  7. #7
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    Thx guys....will relay those tips to him. Happy New Year too :}
    jr20516v

    Now:
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    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2

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    COL
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    My worth as i'm not familiar with the 205.

    I see a new thermostat has been fitted, is it the correct one (eg is it the type that has a small hole and if so is the hole to the top?)

    Also is the thermostat been fitted the correct way round.

    I would also remove the thermostat and test it on the stove with a thermometer to make sure that it is working properly.

    Last of all make sure you have bled the air out of the cooling system.
    Regards Col

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    Quote Originally Posted by jr20516v View Post
    ...header tank actually bubbling...

    Temp gauge shows only slightly over normal.

    Fans work fine.

    Any other ideas i have not thought of?

    I'm with JohnW - this sounds like a head gasket leak. Only other thought is radiator/expansion tank cap has failed - even found an old thread on the topic!
    205gti radiator cap or exp. pressure cap?

    Cheers

    Alec

  10. #10
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    Yes Col...correct thermostat.
    Thx Alec for that thread....we didnt even think about the header tank cap.........will change that as a precess of elimination.

    Also.......hows this for weird...........when driving around at say 60kph the gauge takes 5 mins to go over normal however when we just run the car sitting in the garage [waiting for the fans to come on ] she takes 10-15 minutes. LOL
    jr20516v

    Now:
    205 GTi 1.9, Exige SC [modded], 205 Si.


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2

  11. #11
    COL
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr20516v;

    Also.......hows this for weird...........when driving around at say 60kph the gauge takes 5 mins to go over normal however when we just run the car sitting in the garage [waiting for the fans to come on
    she takes 10-15 minutes. LOL
    I would say that would be right for just about every car.

    An engine idling is not under load, where as driving around it is depending on terrain etc there for will warm up quicker.
    Regards Col

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  12. #12
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    I hearwhat you say Col. A closed garage with no free air and probably 36c is a close second though ;]
    jr20516v

    Now:
    205 GTi 1.9, Exige SC [modded], 205 Si.


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2

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    UPDATE: He replaced the header tank cap. [the existing one wasnt a recovery type cap ] and she is now all good. No tea kettle in the header tank LOL
    But now he has another problem........ the car kicks like a mule when driving. Doesnt matter where....uphill, downhill or on straights. I am thinking maybe fuel related?? Your thoughts ?
    jr20516v

    Now:
    205 GTi 1.9, Exige SC [modded], 205 Si.


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2

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    I had that issue to with crazy bunny hopping. Check to make sure the 2 pin cable from the side of the dizzy is plugged in and not broken/shorted. Mine was doing this as the wire kept shorting randomly and eventually stalled the car.

    Also check connections on ignition coil, mine were loose on that too.

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    Last edited by flock; 8th January 2018 at 02:32 PM.

  15. #15
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    I will get him to check that...ta :} Its not like bunny hopping but more a mule kick as he is simply driving along especially when coming off the accelerator then back on....she then will kick for just one second. Sometimes it can kick every say 100 metres at any speed.:[ Mmmmm.
    jr20516v

    Now:
    205 GTi 1.9, Exige SC [modded], 205 Si.


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2

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    Quote Originally Posted by jr20516v View Post
    UPDATE: He replaced the header tank cap. [the existing one wasnt a recovery type cap ] and she is now all good. No tea kettle in the header tank LOL
    But now he has another problem........ the car kicks like a mule when driving. Doesnt matter where....uphill, downhill or on straights. I am thinking maybe fuel related?? Your thoughts ?
    Good!! I presume that means the cylinder head coolant temperatures run above coolant's boiling point at atmospheric pressure? When I tested the Peugeot coolant (the hard way...) it boiled at about 107 degrees in a non-pressurised system. What is the gauge showing and where is the sensor located on the 205 I wonder?
    JohnW

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  17. #17
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    205 gauges are normally unreliable however it is showing just above normal. Sensor is located just under the dizzy area.
    jr20516v

    Now:
    205 GTi 1.9, Exige SC [modded], 205 Si.


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2

  18. #18
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr20516v View Post
    205 gauges are normally unreliable however it is showing just above normal. Sensor is located just under the dizzy area.
    Ah. Does it attach to the head, and measure metal temperature, or is it in the coolant stream - presumably where the hot coolant comes out of the head? If the temperature is normal, i.e. well below 100 degrees, why would it boil without a pressure cap on the expansion chamber. Just puzzled, not arguing or anything!
    JohnW

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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Yeah, the sensor is in the exhaust coolant stream, so in theory it measures exhaust temperature, which is the hot side, but apart from the sensor and gauge being far from ideal, I expect trapped air would impact readings as well. If the sensor is not full immersed in coolant it won't indicate anything abnormal hence I would discard any readings unless I knew the system was completely air free.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    Yeah, the sensor is in the exhaust coolant stream, so in theory it measures exhaust temperature, which is the hot side, but apart from the sensor and gauge being far from ideal, I expect trapped air would impact readings as well. If the sensor is not full immersed in coolant it won't indicate anything abnormal hence I would discard any readings unless I knew the system was completely air free.
    Hmm. I don't disagree at all, but if there were that much air in the system, would it cool?

    Boiling like a kettle, add pressure cap and it doesn't?

    There's something there I don't get.....
    JohnW

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  21. #21
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    So might still have a small head gasket leak?

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Hmm. I don't disagree at all, but if there were that much air in the system, would it cool?

    Boiling like a kettle, add pressure cap and it doesn't?

    There's something there I don't get.....
    Good question.

    By that I mean I don't have an answer I can back with experimental proof.

    In principle it would cool as long as the coolant can still circulate to the radiator and back. Even if it didn't, you still need to keep adding heat to coolant to keep it boiling (until it's all gone anyway). The exhaust manifold (and the head, at least on the exhaust side) is way above 100 deg C hence it is above the water boiling point. Hence water still absorbs heat from the head, etc., which is to say it is still cooling the engine (to some degree).

    To make this more complicated you could try to think of the water vapour pressure and how that affects the boiling point. A small pocket of air will be vapour saturated very quickly and reach high pressure faster (than a large air pocket) hence providing some negative feedback (reducing water evaporation) and causing the water boiling point to raise again a little bit.

    The coolant reservoir cap has a set release pressure (above atmospheric) by construction (spring loaded seal), but it needs to seal to function (i.e. to release only when that pressure is achieved). The pressure inside the system therefore will build to that point, which will serve to raise the coolant boiling point (alongside the chemistry of the coolant).

    You would have learnt at uni about decompression (retrograde) boiling, which explains some of the violent volcanic eruptions in volatile rich lavas (acidic, i.e. rhyolites to some if not all andesites) in contrast to water poor lavas (basic - basalts). Same mechanism here.
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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post
    So might still have a small head gasket leak?
    I would call that a possibility not eliminated yet.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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