XU9 Mi16 - Full Rebuild
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 17 of 17
Like Tree4Likes
  • 1 Post By pug-life
  • 1 Post By pgti6
  • 2 Post By GRAHAM WALLIS

Thread: XU9 Mi16 - Full Rebuild

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Geelong
    Posts
    1,222

    Default XU9 Mi16 - Full Rebuild

    Hey Froggers,


    So, my 1993 Miami Blue 205 GTi currently has an Mi16 in it. It never ran very well even after extensive investigations to get it running right. That's neither here no there now.

    Advertisement


    The plan now is to build up another Mi16 and replace it. Looking for around 190BHP - 200 (if possible).

    Can you please suggest who might be the best person to approach that can do it from start to finish?

    If's its you, put your hand up.

    North Geelong Engine Reconditioners down here (Vic) are well known for their work, but I would have to walk them through what I want

    XU9 Mi16 - Full Rebuild-img_0568.jpgOpen to suggestions, lessons learnt, limiting factors, feedback.

    The want/desired list would probably include:


    • Forged pistons (Brand?)
    • Tunable ECU (Brand? Emerald, Haltech?)
    • Cams (taylor, cat cams?)
    • Coil packs (spec ?)
    • Baffled sump (GTi6 good enough, or modified XU9?)
    • GTI6 intake manifold.
    • Throttle body (GTi6 standard or modify for larger one?)
    • Any mod that would improve oil pickup and distribution (open to suggestions)
    • injectors (GTI6, XU9 stanard, other?)


    Thanks everyone.

    Look forward to hearing your advice & feedback.

    Cheers
    Julian
    SilverGTi_6 likes this.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! racing405's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Traralgon
    Posts
    610

    Default

    $$$$$ is the real limiting factor. What do you think you want to spend?

    Biggest bang for buck is all about head and compression. Probably don't need significantly bigger valves, but you do need compression.

    After that, get onto some quad throttle bodies - they make a big difference, but cost a lot.

    For ECU - personal choice. I'd say Haltech, and Peter Taylor can help you out there.

    Decide your budget and then others may have specific recommendations. If Graham Wallis still has the head of the engine that split a liner - buy it!
    racing 405
    1:59:09 last time at Phillip Island - less than standard Mi16.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Ipswich, Queensland.
    Posts
    1,753

    Default

    Maybe do a deal with Peter Taylor, if he can find the time and is interested.
    '56 Renault 750 (16TS Power)
    '62 Renault Dauphine Gordini
    '89 Renault Alpine GTA V6 Turbo
    '08 Renault Megane sedan

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,511

    Default

    Hey Julian,
    I've got an Mi16 block just removed from my race car-
    forged pistons, peened rods, ARP bolts, TTV 3.9kg flywheel, 11.5:1 CR, 1927cc. Also have baffled sump, windage tray, extended pick up & XU10 pump available.
    It could be a good start to your high performance engine.

    Jeff
    Roland likes this.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 172hp atw


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  5. #5
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    8,224

    Default

    Head went to Parry. Present motor has 10.5 to 1 D6C pistons, Jenveys, Megasquirt 3, Constella baffled sump, that's it. It has 143 hp at wheels about what you are looking for and is going great at Adelaide Rally, climbed the Collingrove Hillclimb very well yesterday.
    CEyssens and Codman like this.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Geelong
    Posts
    1,222

    Default

    Hi gents. Thanks for the replies. I guess I was think I wasnt going to get much change from $3500-$4000 if some properly (before ITBs).

    Jeff, long time no speak. Is that from your 405? Was that an alloy or iron block? Does your mobile still end in 430?

    Graham, Is that your setup in the 309?

    But yes this is down the path Id like to go. Perhaps not ITBs at this stage. Well see...

    Ill contact you all individually to discuss


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,511

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pug-life View Post
    Jeff, long time no speak. Is that from your 405? Was that an alloy or iron block? Does your mobile still end in 430?
    Yes, alloy, yes.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 172hp atw


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

  8. #8
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    8,224

    Default

    Yes, 309.

    Quote Originally Posted by pug-life View Post
    Hi gents. Thanks for the replies. I guess I was think I wasn’t going to get much change from $3500-$4000 if some properly (before ITB’s).

    Jeff, long time no speak. Is that from your 405? Was that an alloy or iron block? Does your mobile still end in 430?

    Graham, Is that your setup in the 309?

    But yes this is down the path I’d like to go. Perhaps not ITB’s at this stage. We’ll see...

    I’ll contact you all individually to discuss


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,044

    Default

    I think you should buy Jeff's bottom end. Anyone can say they can rebuild an XU9J4 but in reality, very few have the experience necessary in Australia. The head is relatively straight forward. The block however has two main stumbling blocks.

    One. The liners warp easily if they're not clamped down whilst boring/honing.

    Two. The original pistons centre the rod on the crank pin. The 8V in comparison has a wider rod and is centred in a more conventional way on the crank pin. I don't know of any aftermarket XU9J4 pistons which centre the rod correctly. If using XU9J4 rods, the piston needs to be machined internally to create parallel thrust faces and washers made. The alternate option is to use 8V rods and fit bronze bushes to the little ends. Should you not address this problem, the rod will flog about on the pin and eventually crack the piston bosses.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails XU9 Mi16 - Full Rebuild-iapel-thrust-washers.jpg  

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Geelong
    Posts
    1,222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    I think you should buy Jeff's bottom end. Anyone can say they can rebuild an XU9J4 but in reality, very few have the experience necessary in Australia. The head is relatively straight forward. The block however has two main stumbling blocks.

    One. The liners warp easily if they're not clamped down whilst boring/honing.

    Two. The original pistons centre the rod on the crank pin. The 8V in comparison has a wider rod and is centred in a more conventional way on the crank pin. I don't know of any aftermarket XU9J4 pistons which centre the rod correctly. If using XU9J4 rods, the piston needs to be machined internally to create parallel thrust faces and washers made. The alternate option is to use 8V rods and fit bronze bushes to the little ends. Should you not address this problem, the rod will flog about on the pin and eventually crack the piston bosses.
    Thanks Peter.

    And these are the exact reasons why I was apprehensive to have a a local business (as good as they may be) to do the work on an engine like this.

    If you had the choice between doing the same build to an XU9J4 & and XU10J4RS, which in your opinion is the better platform ?



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! SilverGTi_6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    743

    Default

    I can't add anything useful, but best of luck with the build mate! Look forward to seeing the progress.
    Lotus Elise Sport 111
    Peugeot RCZ
    Peugeot 308 GTi
    1966 Volvo 122s

    Previous
    205 GTi, Volvo C30 T5-R, Honda S2000, 206 GTi180, Lotus Elise 111R, 205 GTi 6, Manual 406 coupe, 306 GTi 6, 405 MI16 (twice!), 505 GR

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,044

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pug-life View Post

    If you had the choice between doing the same build to an XU9J4 & and XU10J4RS, which in your opinion is the better platform ?
    The RS is obviously more powerful, more reliable and cheaper to rebuild. However, if you want to retain that light, crisp feel without spending heaps on suspension, then XU9J4. It really just comes down to the + and - of each.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Bluey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    497

    Default

    Is it too much to put my hand up?
    Quote Originally Posted by pug-life View Post
    • Forged pistons Email Pug1off & see what they can offer. Just because they dont have it listed on their website doesn't mean they can't offer a solution. I would get a piston & rod combo rather than just pistons. That way you don't have to faff around with centering.
    • Tunable ECU A LOCALLY supported ECU! Tech support is a phone call away. MoTeC M84 or M130 (both incredibly powerful & easy to tune), Haltech Elite 1000 or PS1000 (Simple to understand, use & tune.Tech support is excellent), Link (NZ), Vipec (Link ECU, different software), Autronic, Adaptronic..... Personally I would stay away from Microtech.
    • Cams Peter's cam's all day everyday.
    • Coil packs Bosch 0980AG0700 coils & quad channel igniter. Alternatively, If a XU10 cam cover will fit, XU10 coils with quad channel igniter, (seems a bit of a step backward loosing the nice magnesium cam cover though.)
    • Baffled sump GTi6 sump & pump
    • GTI6 intake manifold or XU10 dual runner intake. XU9 intake is junk compared to these two
    • Throttle body (GTi6 standard or modify for larger one?)Don't modify the GTi6 63mm throttle body unless you want to go backwards. It is spherically machined to make it progessive. The 55mm XU10J4 throttle body is adequate for 200hp.
    • Any mod that would improve oil pickup and distribution As before, 2L oil pump
    • injectors Standard yellow injectors should be adquate. Others to look at would be the 240cc XU10J2TE, 260cc GTi6 with matching fuel rail or Supercharged Commodore 370cc with a retaining clip groove machined
    Even if you go for pistons, rods & a modified oil system, you're still dealing with the bad oil gallery routing of the 88mm cranks and a cylinder head with poor oil drainage. The RS motor takes care of both of these issues. Find a decent RS motor, throw a set of Peter's Stage 1 cams & a good aftermarket ECU at it and it will make close to 200hp straight up. Dollar for dollar, the RS motor wins everytime. Jeff's bottom end still looks like a good option though.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Geelong
    Posts
    1,222

    Default

    Hi Bluey,

    Great information mate, thanks for that. Nope, i was anticipating you stepping into the ring I just couldn't remember your forum name.

    This is was the other dilemma i was facing. I currently have GTi6 engine with 160k's on it just sitting in the shed...but was leaning towards keeping with the era of engine (Mi16) which I also have access to. Those HP figures sound about what i was hoping to achieve.

    As Peter mentioned, there are + and -'s for each. I've experienced both engines in the OEM condition & I could be swayed either way TBH.

    Either way, this will be the thread where I show the progress of the build.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts gezza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Bunbury
    Posts
    2,060

    Default

    I have a complete gti6 head here with intake injectors etc



    1990 Renault 5 GT turbo
    ####current rides####
    1994 205 gti 1.9 sorento green
    1988 205 gti 1.9 uk import grey
    2001 clio 172 sport ph1 #44/85
    1998 306 gti6. Blaze yellow
    1992 Honda Fireblade
    2013 Yamaha fzs sho Jetski
    1998 Supra RZ twin turbo white
    1999 Wrx classic gc8 sonic blue



  16. #16
    1000+ Posts pug-life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Geelong
    Posts
    1,222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gezza View Post
    I have a complete gti6 head here with intake injectors etc
    Hey Gezza, long time no speak. Ive got a complete one in my shed. But thanks anyway mate. Hope alls well out west.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,511

    Default

    My plan was to re-fresh the alloy block, re-fit the wet sump set up and a J4RS head and manifolds all of which I have.
    The extra compression and deeper valve pockets would allow for bigger cams. Run that on aftermarket engine management in a 205 and I reckon it would easily out perform a standard 205 GTi6.
    Problem is finding a clean, restorable 205 at a reasonable price seems now passed.
    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 172hp atw


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
    http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index...ic=143279&st=0

    Lap times-
    Sandown 1 27.9
    Phillip Island 1 53.8

    Previous Frenchies-
    1988 205Gti
    1998 306 GTi6
    1997 306 N5 sedan
    1996 306 N3 XT hatch
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Avocado
    1976 Renault R16TS manual in Trak Yellow
    1975 Renault 5 Guernsey, Channel Islands
    1972 Renault 4 Guernsey, Channel Islands

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •