Peugeot 504 Break engine swap PRV
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Peugeot 504 Wagon ZN3J PRV project

    Hello,

    I am new on this forum alltough I have been reading quite some posts.
    Happy owner of a 504 V6TI coupé from 78 and a 604 GTI from 85. Moreover I just managed to come over a 505V6 aut. and a 504 Break GL aut from 1977 is on its way in as well...
    The 505 has a good running motor and functioning 4ZF HP22. The 504 has 3ZF HP22 and the 4 cyl carburettor engine. It is in relatively good shape but was stored 20 years ago in a barn.
    All cars are LHD as I am living in Europe.

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    Now to my project, and I hope to get some input here and will post any progress. I’m still in the start phase and nothing concrete will happen this year, I will just start collecting the bits nescessairy to do the conversion as I want to keep it as bolt on as possible...

    Well: I would like to take out the 4cyl and its automatic transmission and put the even-fire V6 with aut in it.
    I would need to update the breaking system (authorities require it because of higher output 143 bhp instead of 93)

    Parts I have:
    V6 even fire with all looms, complete LH jetronic from tank to injectors.
    Cat and exhaust 505 V6
    Complete cooling system 505 V6
    Torque tube 505 sedan v6 auto
    Torque tube 504 break 4cil auto
    Complete Front struts 604 V6 1977 to be overhauled.
    Breakbooster 604 turbo diesel 1980
    Master Break cylinder 604 V6 1985
    Radiator 505 and 604 v6 auto.
    15 inch aloys

    What torquetube would I need (if none of the current would fit)?

    Breaking system:
    To upgrade it I would like to place the “ensemble” of the 604 with vented discs in the front, the 604 MBC but the standard rear drums, any issues??

    Suspension:
    I am thinking of slightly lowering on all axles,
    Any suggestions?

    Front suspension:
    Do the 604 front struts bolt-on? Would be great to overhaul them and just mount them. Once mounted, Will distance between the wheels be the same?
    Torsion bar: a bigger one from 604 TI would fit?

    Diff:
    With current 4cil automic gearbox diff and V6 automatic gearbox any issues?

    The ltd slipp-diff of the V6 wouldn’t fit in the rearaxle of the 504 wagon I suppose?

    To convert rear drums to discs:
    What would be the way forward?

    Gearshifter;
    Any issues to connect current 504 gear shifter for 3 gears to 4 gears?

    Electrics:
    Any issues to make it work?

    Rev counter:
    Although not mounted I could change the dash for a 504 TI or maybe even the nice “monte carlo” dash from the late 504 coupé/cabs.
    Any issues?

    I hope that some of you have experience/knowledge with (some) of the above.

    I am starting to collect parts the coming months and your input will help me.

    Have a good day!

    Walter
    Last edited by walle69; 1st October 2018 at 03:36 PM.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Hi Walter,

    good to see someone fixing up a "real" Peugeot!

    Most of your questions can be answered by feeding each question into "Google". Google will probably redirect you to aussiefrogs anyway. There are numerous detailed posts on your topics (Mostly before the plastic Peugeots became popular).

    Good Luck
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    I have been surfing the net quit a bit and found some answers but not a lot (yet). But I know that neither torque tubes won't fit, and that the 505 doesn't have the LSD I thought it would have.

    I still haven't got the cars (504 wagon aut. 1978 and 505 sedan V6 aut) at my place so I am still in the "paper exercise".

    But it seems that fitting the V6 wouldn't be the big issue.

    Fitting the ZF4 to the 504 wagon body is maybe an issue. The current bracket that holds the tail of the automatic transmission is conceived for the ZF3 and maybe that will be adaptable to the ZF4.(?)

    On the 505 wagon that bracket looks quit different for the ZF4 transmissions (compared to those of earlier ZF3 bracket models).
    And maybe that system (because it contains some rods and chock absorbers) would be best?

    Someone already mounted a zf4 in a 504 wagon?

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Nov 2010
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    Avisford NSW
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    The 4spd box is longer so you will need to cut the tunnel and move the rear mpunt back by the appropriate ammount and shorten the torque tube and prop shaft by the same ammount. Also the mount for the wagons we got here with the 4spd is radically different to th 504 wagon.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Rally's Avatar
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    As Robbo mentioned the torque tube will need to be cut down to length , but also note that the 604 prop shaft is a different diameter to 504/505 . The center bearing in the 604 is larger to suit the bigger prop shaft.

    You will not be able to use the 604 master cylinder and booster in the 504 with rear drum brakes , no residual pressure valve , convert to rear disc. No idea what is involved in rear disc as I have never done it. Fit the bigger 604 front roll bar for road use.

    The diff centers are all the same , you can use the LSD from the 604 and fit it into the wagon rear axle.

    Gear shift , just use the shiftier to match the gearbox

    The 604 front suspension will fit straight in to the 504 , it will increase front track and give you a little negative camber.

    Good luck

    Andy
    Peugeot 504 Rally car V6
    Peugeot 504 LTI
    Peugeot 504 Ti
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    Toyota Land Criuser V8 Super charged ( to tow the rally car )
    Rally with www.AMSAG.com.au

  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    Thanks Ian and Andy,

    How could I improve the performance of the brakesystem with standard parts?

    The V6 and ZF4 come from a 505 and go into the 504 wagon aut. Couldn’t I just use the tube and propshaft of the 504 and shorten it or, better, find one from a later 505 wagon aut zf4? Would that fit in the current 504 wagon diff? Are 505 shafts also thicker?
    The shaft and tube of the 505 sedan are of no use because the axle/suspension are not independent on a 504 wagon
    Last edited by walle69; 21st January 2018 at 10:36 PM.

  7. #7
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    The residual pressure valve will be somewhere in the rear part of the braking system if it is like a 404 which has it in the 4 way union on the front cross member, does the 504 wagon have it in the master cylinder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rally View Post
    As Robbo mentioned the torque tube will need to be cut down to length , but also note that the 604 prop shaft is a different diameter to 504/505 . The center bearing in the 604 is larger to suit the bigger prop shaft.

    You will not be able to use the 604 master cylinder and booster in the 504 with rear drum brakes , no residual pressure valve , convert to rear disc. No idea what is involved in rear disc as I have never done it. Fit the bigger 604 front roll bar for road use.

    The diff centers are all the same , you can use the LSD from the 604 and fit it into the wagon rear axle.

    Gear shift , just use the shiftier to match the gearbox

    The 604 front suspension will fit straight in to the 504 , it will increase front track and give you a little negative camber.

    Good luck

    Andy

  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    Peugeot 504 Break engine swap PRV-bb95220d-0334-4d2b-a6ad-6e05d07fc77b.jpg

    Finally both cars are standing side by side; the 505 travelled 1300 km from the south, the 504 came from 500 km from the north.
    Both standing in my garage in the city of Scania trucks.

    Peugeot 504 Break engine swap PRV-bd56faed-4626-45b9-b66d-e9b3b5a91c20.jpg

    The wagon needs some serious rust repair but is complete, runs and has a nice interior.

    Peugeot 504 Break engine swap PRV-7977611c-7197-49a0-949e-6e49d28c0d3a.jpg

    Last weeks I have been working on the 505 V6 to get it running and to understand the electrics and figure out what looms I need for the conversion. The rest will be thrown away or sold if I find someone.

    A multimeter and wiring diagrams and a good friend (it is super to be two!) helped me sorting out the electrics and the problems mainly caused by an incomplete but still connected alarm system, and a faulty starter. There is no dash or interior in the car so it was just a bunch of wires and relays, boxes etc.

    I got it finally running and am very pleased because it runs incredibly smoothly (especially compared to my 2 other odd-fire PRV’s).

    Very civilised motor that will fit rather well with the calm wagon, all just to please the dog.
    Peugeot 504 Break engine swap PRV-c88c5b5a-e8d0-4157-9168-c80c8ae48060.jpg

    Work will go on and one of the coming weeks we will take out the engine and why not take engine and gearbox together out of the car? Seems to me easiest, but I am not sure how high the nose of the car has to be in order to have enough clearance under the car when making the angle. Maybe I can cut/take away the front plate to make it easier.
    Last edited by walle69; 2nd October 2018 at 03:51 PM.

  9. #9
    Tadpole earthwoodphil's Avatar
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    Hi

    Quite a few years back I swapped the 4 cylinder engine and manual gearbox in our 504 Wagon for an odd fire V6 and auto box from a 604SL.

    It took some time but was basically a straight forward fit and bolt up. No torque tube cutting required and engine mounts were a perfect fit.

    The only modifications required were the gearbox support needing a reshape to lower the centre by about 30mm so the box cleared the tunnel.
    That and the use of a Volvo exhaust manifold on the drivers side so the engine pipe would clear the steering.
    Of course the removal of clutch and brake pedals etc, and the fitting of the auto big brake pedal.

    In those days you had wiring diagrams included in the owners manuals. So the looms were spliced together after hours of studying the tiny wiring diagrams.

    I replaced the carburettors with a Weber DCNF40 and fabricated an exhaust system.

    I loved that car, wish I still had it. The power was just right for the wagon and the odd fire sounded really good.
    It surprised a few Peugeot drivers as I blasted past them

    The only way it could have been better was if I replaced the auto with a 604 5 speed manual gearbox I later acquired.

    Hope the build goes smoothly and you enjoy driving your V6 504 wagon as much as I did.

    Cheers
    Phil

  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    Cool Phil! Good taste!
    work is progressing slowly, but next week I Will take out the motor and transmission from the donor car.

    Exhaustmanifold from the 505 V6 has another design compared to odd fire peugeot PRVs. Let’s see how that fits. the transmission is 12 cm or so longer than the 604 automatic gear box.

    I am now mostly worried about the brake booster that might sit in the way for the left cylinder bank. My car is LHD and doesn’t have an out take in the inner fender and off-centred booster.

    I guess I have to try and see.

    Do you have any pics of your build? Is it still running somewhere?

    Cheers

    Walter

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