PRV engine, what transmission?
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    albany
    Posts
    3

    Default PRV engine, what transmission?

    This question actually deals with a volvo car but since there seemed to be more people here that deal with these engines, and volvo people seem to have fits when this engine is mentioned I thought I'd try asking here. I'm going to be placing a volvo prv, the b280 into my 91 240, but will be making some upgrades to it to the tune of 350-450hp. The problem is that volvo doesn't make a transmission capable of handling this much power. For those that have borrowed this engine, is there a transmission that has been used that's capable of handling this much power? If so are there any adapter kits to attach the transmission or will this require custom fabrication? Thanks for any help with this problem. -Russ

    Advertisement

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    1,419

    Default

    Oh dear, you will get a few funny responses if you mention that you own a Volvo on here

    What about the M90H Volvo transmission? it is a 5 speed and to my knowlege is teh toughest they have ever made. It was used on manual 960s which I believe we never got here, so you mihgt have to import one. I know there is a bloke overseas (Netherlands I think) who has a 244 with a motor from an S80 T6 shoved in it and he runs the M90H. It is a beast.

    There is also somebody overseas running a twin turbo 164 made into a convertible and using the standard manual transmission withthe overdrive removed, as it wasn't up to the 330hp the turboed B30 was putting out. The 164 gearbox is a M400 if it has no overdrive and a M410 if it is overdrive. An M410 wouldn't handle the power unless you do as he did and convert it into an M400 by chucking the overdrive unit.

    You will not find a suitable gerabox that bolts straight up without an adapter unless you can get an early 960 M90H, as the early 960s had the V6 while most of them had a straight six.

    Pug gearboxes will not take that kind of power. The toughest was the BA 10/5 and it was used in a slightly modified form in 4.0 Jeep Cherokees, but they did not put out 350hp.

    If you are going for an auto then things are a bit different, don't use the 604 auto, as it is basically a Holden Trimatic inside, and they pass out at around 300hp.

    You could fit a Chrysler Torqueflite 727 or a GM TH350 or TH400 ( 3 speed) or TH700 ( 4 speed) as fitted to Chevs and Holdens or something like a Ford C6 as these would take the powere easily but you might find them hard to fit in the tunnel and you will still need custon tailshaft and a bellhousing or adapter plate made up specially for it.

    I hope I have been of some help.
    Pugs Rule!

    403, now sold
    404, project
    2010 Mitsubishi i MiEV electric car

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! MR604's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Bathurst
    Posts
    946

    Default

    Dont be so quick to write off using GM auto. They use these boxes behind V8's in drag cars, they are as cheap as chips and it not to hard to find someone to work on them and parts are plentiful and reasonably cheap.

    You could get the box built up with V8 internals and that should handle your power output. Use the pug bellhousing nd then your only problem is to attach the tailshaft to the box.

    There is a 505 in Lismore that has a hotted up V6 in it and he's running the GM auto with V8 internals in the box.

    What are you doing to the motor to get around 400hp out of it? I'm sure there are a few on here that would be interested in what your doing.

    A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention in human history, with the possible exception of handguns and tequila. - Mitch Radcliffe

  4. #4
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2 pugs
    Dont be so quick to write off using GM auto. They use these boxes behind V8's in drag cars, they are as cheap as chips and it not to hard to find someone to work on them and parts are plentiful and reasonably cheap.
    Even BMWs use GM autos - some use GM others use ZF.

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  5. #5
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    albany
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Thanks for the answers, I will have to look into the m-90, I had thought it would only work with the inline 6, but if its compatible it will suit my purposes. The engine is being built up based on the recommendations of John Lane from turbobricks.com using a combination of a b280 and an eagle premier and some modifications. You can do a search of what he's done by looking up the term fire breathing monster, his current version has 500ft lbs of torque and about 500hp at the wheels, and it can still be used as a daily driver, my goal isn't quite this high. -Russ

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! MR604's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Bathurst
    Posts
    946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Even BMWs use GM autos - some use GM others use ZF.
    I believe the even Rolls Royce has used the GM box at one stage.

    A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention in human history, with the possible exception of handguns and tequila. - Mitch Radcliffe

  7. #7
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,256

    Default

    the similarities between the holden trimatic and the 604 strassburg box stops with the GM name i am lead to believe

    we once had to rebuild a 604 auto and new parts were needed and we said to the bloke well it's nearly the same as the holden box to which he said no
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  8. #8
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,256

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 91tbrick
    Thanks for the answers, I will have to look into the m-90, I had thought it would only work with the inline 6, but if its compatible it will suit my purposes. The engine is being built up based on the recommendations of John Lane from turbobricks.com using a combination of a b280 and an eagle premier and some modifications. You can do a search of what he's done by looking up the term fire breathing monster, his current version has 500ft lbs of torque and about 500hp at the wheels, and it can still be used as a daily driver, my goal isn't quite this high. -Russ

    get a bellhousing to suit or an adaptor place and run a C4 auto
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    152

    Default

    Folks can I clarify a few things here:

    Volvo
    Volvo used the Getrag 5 speed behind some V6s, this is offset first gear type, this is a bullett proof unit, its the one to get.

    BA10/5
    In good condition this box will handle the power you are talking about, I would like to know how you intend to get that power though. The twin turbo 505 in Victoria that regularly cleans up WRXs and will hold station with 300kw commodes at Philip Island has had no problems with its BA10/5. Most of the failures in BA10s stem from synchro centraliser spring failure where bits of the spring break teeth in the box.

    The GM Trimatic
    This unit has many commom components with a Holden Trimatic, I use 'holden' gasket kits when I do them up, the only odd one I need to buy is the rear main seal. Between the other 505 V6 turbo and myself we have destroyed 4 of these in the last 10 years or so, the're cheap and plentiful though and my 505 V6 turbo still has one of these in it. The modification to V8 internals I suspect refers to changing the output planetary gear carrier from 3 plantery gears to the 4 planetary gear unit as used in V8 Holdens, this will help but does not stop the failure caused by axial forces in the box breaking the thrust washer.
    Last edited by OddFireV6; 3rd May 2004 at 02:30 PM. Reason: dodgy grammar/spelling
    OddfireV6
    504 V6 24V, 203

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! nchandler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    650

    Default

    Good luck finding an M90...

    AW71 is good for 200-250hp with ease. Maybe more with a little work.

    Supra 5 speed (I think that is the Getrag box - is a common choice for power hungry brick owners.)

    Nick

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    152

    Default

    Getting out of my area of expertise now but I think the only Supra's that had factory fitteds Getrags were the 6 speed Supra's, The non-Getrag Supra 5 speed boxes are obviously strong however would not bolt straight up to a V6 without an adaptor of some sort.
    OddfireV6
    504 V6 24V, 203

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    1,419

    Default

    The GM gearbox referred to above as used in Rolls Royces etc is NOT the Trimatic box. It is the GH Turbo-Hydramatic box, I think the TH400.
    The information I have regarding Trimatics in V8 Holdens etc is that they become extremely marginal above 300hp and if you are going to use a GM auto above this power output you are advised to go TH350 or TH400. The TH700 as used in COmmodores is a 4 speed TH400 basically.
    These will take 400hp easily but will need an adaptor.

    I would prefer a manual transmission anyway, so I would be trying to find an M90H from overseas. Failing that, you could try a Tremec with a custom bellhousing, but it will cost $$$$$$$$$
    Pugs Rule!

    403, now sold
    404, project
    2010 Mitsubishi i MiEV electric car

  13. #13
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,256

    Default

    well as far as i know the 604 box is a GM TH180 from memory if that is of any help for anyone
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    1,419

    Default

    I would be extremely wary of trusting it behind a 350-450hp motor.
    I think manual is the way to go anyway.
    Failing a M90H there are other 5 speeds to consider. They will all need custom work to fit though.

    THe Tremec started out as a 5 speed Ford Toploader and they are bulletproof. They are also very expensive and bulky. They have now moved on to their own design 6 speed, and it is in the new V8 Holdens and Falcons.

    The Borgwarner T5 is used in six cylinder Falcons, and in Commodores for a long time. THey were also in V8 Falcons for a while and used in Mustangs and the FOrd Sierra Cosworth RS500. Don't use a Falcon six T5 as it is jsut a 4 cyl Mustang box. The V8 Ford/Holden version is the "world class" T5 with stronger internals. There are heaps of adaptors available to fit the T5 into other cars.

    The TOyota Supra box would be marginal for a 350-450hp motor. It might last but don't try any quick takeoffs.

    I don't know about any NIssan boxes, but I believe they make some strong ones.

    Getrag from a V8 Commodore maybe?

    It's going tocost money whichever way you look at it.
    Pugs Rule!

    403, now sold
    404, project
    2010 Mitsubishi i MiEV electric car

  15. #15
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,256

    Default

    what about the C4 auto boxes ?

    they seemed very popular going back a few years to stick in behind worked V8's and their were kits made for them to handle more power

    my brother inlaw had one behind his 302w that he had in his TD cortina that had been worked over and a B&M shift kit to go with it

    not that i would go to the extreme of the shifter

    i thought the T5 was a pretty strong box ?

    adapters aren't too hard to make up and even easier for autos
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    1,419

    Default

    There are 2 T5s. The one we got in six cyoinder Falcons was the light one from the 4 cylinder Mustangs. It is lighter internally, and is bulletproof in a 4 cylinder, and will cope with a six cylinder Falcon but a 350hp motor would eat it.
    The V8 FAlcons, I think the Holdens, the Sierra Cosworth RS500 etc had the so called "World Class" T5 which is much stronger internally and will handle quite a lot of power.

    With the Ford autos the C4 willl probably handle the power, but it will not last as long as a C6. On the other hand a C6 will sap more power and is bulkier.
    Manual is better anyway.
    Pugs Rule!

    403, now sold
    404, project
    2010 Mitsubishi i MiEV electric car

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    152

    Default

    The GM transmission used in 604s is the TH180 and not the TH400 as suggested above. The TH stands for Turbo-hydramatic, the use of the terms tri matic or hydramatic is of no techical significance these terms are used interchangeably.
    Last edited by OddFireV6; 10th May 2004 at 10:59 AM. Reason: I like things to be right!
    OddfireV6
    504 V6 24V, 203

  18. #18
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223

    Default

    Originally posted by 2 pugs
    I believe the even Rolls Royce has used the GM box at one stage.
    Because GM led the world in auto-trans technology for decades... they were the smoothest shifters and the quietest and the most reliable, which all appealed to the people at Crewe.

    OddFire... you sure know your game... welcome to the forum. Glad you were able to confirm some interchangeability between the 604 and Holden boxes...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •