ES9J4 intermittent missing when cold
  • Help
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,410

    Default ES9J4 intermittent missing when cold

    Hello folks,

    The ES9J4 in my XM has started to miss intermittently sometimes when it is cold. Once it has warmed up it is fine. It doesn't do it all the time.

    I have had 60,000 km of trouble-free motoring (apart from a few minor electrical gremlins, none fatal, which I can tolerate). Maybe it's time to give it a birthday, now it has done 140,000 km.

    Advertisement


    Any ideas?

    Thanks,
    Roger

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Roland's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    727

    Default

    Hi Roger,

    Have you checked to see if the plugs are swimming in oil?

    Common problem with these engines!

    Cheers

    Roland

    Land Rover Discovery 4
    406 Coupe D9 - Manual (2002)
    307 Hdi Estate - Auto - (2007)
    307 Hdi Sedan - Auto - (2007)
    505GR Estate - Personal Import from UK 1971cc Manual (March 1986)
    405 Mi16x4 (all the parts ready to install into the LeMans body)

  3. #3
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,410

    Default

    Thanks for the tip. I haven't checked anything yet.

    Roger

  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,744

    Default

    Are the plugs completely burnt away ...... and in need of replacement

    I've just spent 3 weeks driving myself absolutely nuts trying to get the land rover to run properly.... it would do the random "heavily miss and run very poorly". There is nothing harder to find than something that is intermittent. I've been tearing my hair out in frustration and have spent HOURS looking at it and finding nothing really wrong. I think I finally have it sussed though.



    This is RUST. I fitted an AEB ignition advance unit to it about 12months ago (they are brilliant I must say). They however are not bloody moisture proof.... grrrr.... How can someone make soemthing that lives under a bonnet and not make it water proof It would run ok with the curcuit board sitting in the moisture (as you can see the rust lines), but as soon as it was hot under the bonnet, the unit was it's own little hothouse and moisture must have condensed across the entire board

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ES9J4 intermittent missing when cold-aeb2.jpg   ES9J4 intermittent missing when cold-aeb1.jpg  
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  5. #5
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,410

    Default

    Well, whatever it is, it has just got a lot worse. The thing died completely as I was heading home tonight. I'm not sure I have time at the moment to work on it myself: I might have to leave it to the only local mechanic who is not afraid of weird cars.

    Roger

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,744

    Default

    completely cutting out ? that narrows it down a lot more. Does it have transformer coils, or one coil and an ignition module (I'm thinking heat sensitive ignition module).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  7. #7
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,410

    Default

    It has multiple coils. I know how ignition module systems work but not multiple coil systems.

    It started missing a little when cold, not when hot.

    The only mechanic in Warrnambool I trust (he has a Range Rover and a P6B) says he is a mechanic down and hasn't time to look at it in the next month so I will have it brought home and have a play with it myself. At the moment I don't even know where most of the components are. Service manual here I come.

    RACV man tried banging on the bottom of the fuel tank in case it was the fuel pump, and squirting ether up the air intake. Neither helped.

    Roger

    PS this thread has not received much input. I posted it here to attract both Pug and Cit people. Would it be better in the Pug forum?

  8. #8
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Menzies Creek
    Posts
    2,555

    Default

    Assuming the ES9J4 used in the XM is identical to that used in the 406 and Xantia:

    The ignition system is a wasted spark system, using three coils in one module on the front bank of the engine, with leads going to the rear bank.

    The coil pack can be accessed by removing the front engine cover, held on by 4 Torx bit screws. There are then 6 allen-head screws to remove the coil pack, after removing the three ignition leads and the one plug at the timing belt end of the engine.

    If there are any cracks in the resin on top of the coil pack, it has probably had it. They often still run like this, but break down in wet or humid weather, or when the engine is hot.

    I bought a new one last year, so they were still available then. Good secondhand ones are hard to find, and probably nearing failure anyway.

    As mentioned earlier in the thread, the spark plug tubes can fill with oil due to leaks from the cam boxes and cam box covers. This usually does not have as big an impact as people expect it to, but it still can be detrimental to performance. It won't cause the engine to completely cut out though.

    On the timing belt end of the front bank, just above the connector to the coil pack, there is a suppressor capacitor that can fail either open or short circuit. If it fails open, the only consequence might be a little more noise on the radio when listening to AM in low-signal areas. If it fails short, however, the engine will not run at all. If you're not concerned about your radio reception, you can cut this wire completely and tape it up securely, this takes it out of the equation altogether.

    Another possibility is the connector that goes between the main engine loom and the injector/map sensor loom. This sits just next to the intake manifold, towards the timing belt end. It is a large (~25mm x ~50mm -ish) connector, black, with a red slide to connect and disconnect it. They can fail internally (little plastic clips break) and then the plug pulls apart. Without a MAP sensor signal or all of the injectors firing, the motor tends to not run particularly well or at all. You can pull the rubber boot off each end and make sure that the connector is fully mated.

    That's my two best guesses. Good luck with it!
    Scotty

    Melbourne - Dandenong Ranges

    1956 Peugeot 403 - 'Francois' - resto project

    1969 Peugeot 504 - 'Pascal' - daily driver project

    1970 Peugeot 404 Utility - 'Brutus' - resto project

    1978 Peugeot 604 - as yet unnamed - V6 on straight LPG

    1987 Peugeot 505 - as yet unnamed - project car

    1999 Peugeot 406 Coupé - 'Chloe' - 5 speed manual

    2011 Peugeot 3008 XTE HDi - 'Zoe' - hatchback on steroids

    2014 Peugeot RCZ - 'Remy'

    1999 Range Rover 4.6 HSE - 'Grover' - tow car

  9. #9
    COL
    COL is offline
    A110 COL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Van Diemen's Land
    Posts
    4,331

    Default

    I would be hooking an OBD2 reader to it first and seeing what codes there are.

    Then I would reset the and try to start the car again and then see what codes came up.

    This would take a lot of the guess work out of whats wrong with the car.

    But from whats been said and what the RACV man has done it does sound like it is ignition.

    But again only guessing.
    Regards Col

    1973 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    1976 Renault R12 Station Wagon
    2002 Renault Laguna V6
    1973 Alpine A110

    http://alpine-a110.weebly.com/

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,188

    Default

    Any progress Roger?

    The fuel pump can still work, but not be generating enough pressure. That's something you might want to check and I do recall another car having ongoing problems for that reason. It was a different beast with a new pump.

    You probably want to borrow the coil pack from the spares car as a test. Maybe, also some of the sensors as shown in the attached diagrams for the ES9 XM? All are shared with something else and have aftermarket equivalents. The MAP sensor was used in early Berlingo, Xsara, Xantia and ZX, so there are quite a few options to find one. The flywheel pickup was used in a large number of models.


    ES9J4 intermittent missing when cold-xm_es9_inj1.jpg ES9J4 intermittent missing when cold-xm_es9_inj2.jpg
    Last edited by David S; 31st July 2017 at 03:11 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •