Programmable electronic ignition
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Default Programmable electronic ignition

    Hi guys,

    I am interested in installing programmable electronic ignition to my Bx GT.
    I have a jaycar kit here that i could make and use, however it can only program min, mid and max timing points on it and I was wondering if there were any other products around that are a bit more flexible.

    Cheers,

    Dave

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    Hi guys,

    I am interested in installing programmable electronic ignition to my Bx GT.
    I have a jaycar kit here that i could make and use, however it can only program min, mid and max timing points on it and I was wondering if there were any other products around that are a bit more flexible.

    Cheers,

    Dave
    I know Haltech make one, but it's more at the top end of the market.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks Peter,

    I was just wondering if there was anything inbetween price wise.
    If i was to look at a something the price of a Haltech i would just bite the bullet and look for a 2nd hand/older model e6 series ecu so i could solve my fuel and ignition problems once and for all.

    Edit: What inputs do you use for your haltech? The hall effect on the flywheel, and a combination of TPS and MAP for the fuel? Can the haltech run of a TPS and Hall effect sensors alone? or does it need a MAP or AFM aswell??

    Whats the oldest version of the E6 series you can still buy new? and what version is yours?


    Dave
    Last edited by Dave; 22nd April 2004 at 11:09 PM.


  4. #4
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    Thanks Peter,

    I was just wondering if there was anything inbetween price wise.
    If i was to look at a something the price of a Haltech i would just bite the bullet and look for a 2nd hand/older model e6 series ecu so i could solve my fuel and ignition problems once and for all.

    Edit: What inputs do you use for your haltech? The hall effect on the flywheel, and a combination of TPS and MAP for the fuel? Can the haltech run of a TPS and Hall effect sensors alone? or does it need a MAP or AFM aswell??

    Whats the oldest version of the E6 series you can still buy new? and what version is yours?


    Dave
    I'm currently using a locked 205 distributor and std. 205 ignitor to fire my E6A. Only the latest E6X can fire off the Motronic missing tooth flywheel. It can sense load off either MAP or TPS. MAP is more accurate, but with big cams you usually use TPS because of the lack of vacuum.

    Keep an eye out for E6, E6A or E6S.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Default

    Ahh so it can run off a locked distributer? the only reason i have not looked into this more closely is that i dont have a missing tooth flywheel at the moment and i thought this is where the haltechs got there signal from.
    I have a wrecked Bx Tri 122 at home so with the combination of the tri parts and a E6 series haltech are there any other parts i would need to get it working?
    Thanks,
    Dave


  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    I have a wrecked Bx Tri 122 at home so with the combination of the tri parts and a E6 series haltech are there any other parts i would need to get it working?
    I am currently looking at the current model E6X haltech with the Halwin software. Is there anything besides the tri parts and the haltech kit that i will need?
    Also do you know if your maps from your E6 will be compatible with the E6X (and halwin)? I know it can import E6k and GM maps.
    Thanks for all your help.

    Dave


  7. #7
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    I am currently looking at the current model E6X haltech with the Halwin software. Is there anything besides the tri parts and the haltech kit that i will need?
    Also do you know if your maps from your E6 will be compatible with the E6X (and halwin)? I know it can import E6k and GM maps.
    Thanks for all your help.

    Dave
    That's a big step from the Jaycar kit! Just make sure you get a MAP sensor, they might be optional. I can certainly give you an E6A or E6S map that will get you started.

    You'll need to drill and tap for the larger water temp. sensor. I think it's 3/8" NPT. I made a small plate from 3mm mild steel to adapt the throttle position sensor.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    That's a big step from the Jaycar kit!
    Got a new job
    It would be great if you could send me a map to get me started, I'll see if i can load it with the halwin software.

    [email protected]



    Dave


  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Default

    Just one more question
    How do i control the idle with the haltech?
    Do i need a stepper motor or does it run fine with the standard gear?


    Dave


  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! 505 to the max's Avatar
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    Default Ecu

    Why automatically go with a Haltech? Last time I saw prices, E series ECU's were going for about $1600 or higher. The map sensor is separate (at additional cost from memory) and the loom for it is quite complex. Have you considered something from EMS, Microtech etc? Most ECU's from these Aust. companies are just as capable as a Haltech, Autronic etc and cost about 60% as much. The TRP WRX (fastest in the world) uses an EMS Stinger, RRP $995. I have heard that the Haltech system is the easiest to tune though...

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Talked to Motec QLD at Staffordtune in Brisbane a month or so ago, and they are now selling off new old stock M4s for $1700. I don't know what they come with, and I don't want one, (I have 2) but it is a big step down in price.
    '56 Renault 750 (16TS Power)
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore
    Talked to Motec QLD at Staffordtune in Brisbane a month or so ago, and they are now selling off new old stock M4s for $1700. I don't know what they come with, and I don't want one, (I have 2) but it is a big step down in price.
    I can't get the haltech much cheaper than that. So what are the benefits of an M4?



    Dave


  13. #13
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 505 to the max
    Why automatically go with a Haltech? ......... and the loom for it is quite complex...

    Not so. The Haltech loom is almost identical to an Mi16. MAP sensors are $20 from the wreckers. They're a GM part.

    It's also a case of getting what you pay for. Those cheaper brands don't have the ability to run missing tooth input triggers, MAP load sensing, sequential injection, wasted spark ignition or data logging.
    Last edited by PeterT; 14th November 2004 at 11:01 PM.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    I downloaded the MoTec software for the m4 last night, the haltech software looks much easier to use. So what is the difference between the two? Is it possible to have more load points with the m4? (i think standard they both use 500 rpm intervals and interpolate between).

    Dave


  15. #15
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    I downloaded the MoTec software for the m4 last night, the haltech software looks much easier to use. So what is the difference between the two? Is it possible to have more load points with the m4? (i think standard they both use 500 rpm intervals and interpolate between).

    Dave
    Yes they both do that. The Haltech software has 32 load points per 500 map. So at say 2000 rpm, there's 32 tuning points from no load to full load.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Hi Dave,
    Thanks for your MoTeC enquiry.

    MoTeC M4 Clubman will control your engine perfectly, unfortunately you haven't elaborated on the type of distributor you have in the car. If it is hall or magnetic you should be OK but you would have to confirm this with me. You would also have to confirm how many teeth are in the distributor and is there a separate camshaft sensor. (May be required for sequential injection)

    M4 Clubman $1950.00
    M4 Pro $2387.58

    M4 Loom & sensor kit (Norm ASP) $408.43
    M4 Loom & sensor kit (Turbo) $445.96

    If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

    Regards,
    Paul Masterson
    MoTeC Queensland
    30 Stone Street
    Stafford 4053
    Australia
    07 3352 5155
    Looks like the MoTec is still a bit expensive.

    Dave


  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! MondeoST24's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    Hi guys,

    I am interested in installing programmable electronic ignition to my Bx GT.
    I have a jaycar kit here that i could make and use, however it can only program min, mid and max timing points on it and I was wondering if there were any other products around that are a bit more flexible.

    Cheers,

    Dave
    www.delta-digital.com.au click on the DeltaMax link.
    David
    Former 306 S16 owner- now own a Mondeo ST24 V6

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    Maybe Paul (Motec) was doing me a deal. He definately said $1700, I guess without loom or possibly sensors. Various units of all makes turn up on Performance Forums regularly second hand.
    '56 Renault 750 (16TS Power)
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan moore
    =Various units of all makes turn up on Performance Forums regularly second hand.
    They are usually sold before the seller finishes pressing the post button on the for sale thread Bill Sherwoord always snaps up the MoTecs he must have a few lying around now.


    Dave


  20. #20
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    Default Have you considered MegaSquirt?

    Just thought I'd throw MegaSquirt as an option.

    There are different versions and projects that can do fuel, ignition, or both. I was planning this as a winter project once they come out with Ultra MegaSquirt.

    The other version I'm interested in is MegaSquirt'n Spark. Uses a 36 -1 tooth wheel and the ignition module from a Ford... Pretty slick if you're handy with building electronics or know somebody who is. You can also buy them pre-built.

    Check it out more here: www.msefi.com

  21. #21
    Tadpole Ferguson's Avatar
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    Whats with emerald?
    On theier page they have a BX 16V with the M3DK managment system.
    You can check out here: http://www.emeraldm3d.com/em_projects.html
    What do you think about this?

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