Freeing frozen fasteners.
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  1. #1
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Default Freeing frozen fasteners.

    Using an old candle .... everyone has one of these around the house right ?



    I have a completely frozen brake mechanism here ... 30 seconds with a torch .... melt a bit of candle wax on it and ... I'll be dammed if it didn't all move when tapped with a hammer, then come apart.

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    I have a two frozen 3 point linkage adjustment rods too.... They are probably threaded rod into tube 3" deep. No doubt they haven't moved in 3 decades. I melted some wax down into one of them, and it creaked and groaned.... and actually moved ( sheering off 1/2cm down into the sleeve). You know I reckon if I cycle the other one hot/cold a few dozen times, I'll get the wax down the full length of the threaded rod, and it'll move.

    This is absolutely amazing. You don't even need an oxy set. Just a small gas torch and a candle.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    I saw that elsewhere and thought bs, but it's good you've confirmed it works!


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    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    At High School (1964'ish), the Science Master drove a rust bucket '48 FX Holden. The chrome work was fantastic. The teach told us that when new he had painted all the chrome work with hot melted candle wax.
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    it also goes well dripped on your bare ass.
    but only when tied to beam! but you all knew that anyway.

    nuff sed about the candle....

    --------------------
    more seriously.... great idea and i love the guy's accent and general mode of speech!
    highly entertaining...
    Last edited by alexander; 2nd December 2016 at 01:27 AM.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Geez, Al...
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Surely application of the torch did the majority of the work?
    Tell me he tried heat before waxing?
    The wax provided lubrication, could have been provided by any wick in penetrant?

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    It's only a little gas torch that I'm using ( You know ... $35buck from bunnings and a disposable bottle). I'll upload a couple of photos of what I undid tonight. The only way I could have got it apart without the wax was an angle grinder with a cutting blade.

    The wax seems to wick down threads when heated. In a way that all the fancy named "penetrates" such as wd40 etc... don't. To use heat to free up seized items, you would need an oxy set so you could get the item red'ish hot.

    What I've been freeing up is the brake on an old tractor that are enclosed in a "dry" housing on the side of the tractor. They sit in there and rust together in a most spectacular fashion.

    seeya
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85Fuego View Post
    Surely application of the torch did the majority of the work?
    Tell me he tried heat before waxing?
    The wax provided lubrication, could have been provided by any wick in penetrant?
    that is what i have been wondering too.
    i have seen a similar vid recently, so the idea must be doing the rounds.

    i note in this one that the comparison is with applying a penetant to the stud over time but without heat. so perhaps, as you say, heat plus a wide range of penetrants would do the same? even if so, however, combining heat with anything at all to wick in, is a noteworthy idea.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    that is what i have been wondering too.
    i have seen a similar vid recently, so the idea must be doing the rounds.

    i note in this one that the comparison is with applying a penetant to the stud over time but without heat. so perhaps, as you say, heat plus a wide range of penetrants would do the same? even if so, however, combining heat with anything at all to wick in, is a noteworthy idea.
    Try it .... what is there to loose ? Your talking a candle that is probably worth about 25cents ..... And a small gas torch.... I've never ( ever ) found penetrants of any sort actually work and "penetrating" and freeing frozen fasteners. They do lubricate and allow them to be unscrewed if you manage to break the hold of the rust without sheering the fastener though.

    seeya
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Try it .... what is there to loose ? Your talking a candle that is probably worth about 25cents ..... And a small gas torch.... I've never ( ever ) found penetrants of any sort actually work and "penetrating" and freeing frozen fasteners. They do lubricate and allow them to be unscrewed if you manage to break the hold of the rust without sheering the fastener though.

    seeya
    Shane L.
    I agree, one way to bust a myth is to leave the keyboard discussion and actually do the experiment.
    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Try it .... what is there to loose ? Your talking a candle that is probably worth about 25cents ..... And a small gas torch.... I've never ( ever ) found penetrants of any sort actually work and "penetrating" and freeing frozen fasteners. They do lubricate and allow them to be unscrewed if you manage to break the hold of the rust without sheering the fastener though.

    seeya
    Shane L.
    Not to say this isn't a neat trick, but I have found penetrating fluids work.

    Brake fluid penetrates, Freeze and Release (by Loctite) worked for me to extract a broken head bolt off a 205GTI block (just 1cm above the block, and people with 205GTIs know the pain), WD40 works as well. They may not completely release fasteners but they do help. One crucial aspect is patience. A broken head bolt in a Toyota cast iron block took me a week of soaking with brake fluid to release.

    Freeze and release worked practically instantly but I think I had the advantage of the bolt having some clearance around it in the hole where the fluid could penetrate and sit whilst evaporating, which cooled the bolt down efficiently. They claim the stuff also penetrates and lubricates.
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    here's the brake rotors.... they are stationary. The brake discs spin on the spline line a clutch plate.





    the idea is a rod pushes on the mechanism, and the rotors rotate and press outward. It's completely seized.



    this is one of the nuts. There's nothing left there to grab as it's rusted away ( yes, nut, thats the remains of the bolt passing through it).



    this is all 100% frozen and locked up. You can hit it with heavy hammers and all you do it bend/break/damage it, but not break the corrosion.



    10 minutes iwth the torch and candle. First I grabbed the rusted away nut with some vice grips, melted wax down into it and hit the other sidie with the rattle gun ( both ends). Then with the bracket removed. I put it in the vice, and heated it all with the torch and melted wax down into the pin area, then gently tapped all the "legs" until they freed up and moved around. I could then break the split pins off and tap the pin out.

    100% disassembled. I'll sandblast it all... maybe give the rotors a touch up in the lathe and re-assemble with anti-seize paste.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Freeing frozen fasteners.-p1180958.jpg   Freeing frozen fasteners.-p1180957.jpg   Freeing frozen fasteners.-p1180956.jpg   Freeing frozen fasteners.-p1180955.jpg   Freeing frozen fasteners.-p1180954.jpg   Freeing frozen fasteners.-p1180953.jpg  

    Freeing frozen fasteners.-p1180951.jpg  
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    Gee, Shane, they were bad! Mine have never been anywhere near that bad.

    If you ever get into real trouble with it there is always Jason Taylor at Stoneyford Tractor Wreckers. He would have a few.

    Roger

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    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    Frozen bolts, nuts get some

    Chemsearch YIELD. Costs heap but is 100% effective

    Yield

    I have no connection with the company

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Gee, Shane, they were bad! Mine have never been anywhere near that bad.

    If you ever get into real trouble with it there is always Jason Taylor at Stoneyford Tractor Wreckers. He would have a few.

    Roger
    The brakes match the rest of the tractor .... battered and well used It lived on a very steep hill where I bought it from ... I'd say they seized up "on" and the tractor was just continued to be used. As you can see they are heavily worn.. the entire mechanism really should be replaced... both outer brake pad discs had disintegrated.

    When it seized up only the outer half must "sort of" work. Amazingly there was slight retardation still if you stood on the brakes. I'll re-assemble the best of the crap bits and refit the diff lock side brake unit (as that side has a ballasted tyre) ... and chase up new parts and pads for the other side when I can find them. After all, it's never going to get out of low range around my place.... Having usable brakes on just one wheel is going to save lots of fence mending practice. (the last owner just crawled all over his vineyard in low 1st so he could just point it across the hill to stop ).
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    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Yes, I was wondering why Shane took credit for JBN's Toad Pond post made a week previously?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 404 View Post
    Yes, I was wondering why Shane took credit for JBN's Toad Pond post made a week previously?

    Dave


    I stumbled across this when I googled "freeing rusted fasteners". I didn't realise it had already been posted!
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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    Hi Folks

    Well, the candle trick definitely works, thanks Shane, I had to remove a stud from an old exhaust manifold, tried the usual sprays, would not move, heated it up, applied a candle to it and it came undone really easy.

    Regards
    Neil

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    great tips and experiments!

    I had an ordeal recently when trying to remove a wingnut from the top of a 100yr old jewellers lamp shade.

    The wingnut was not original and i later found out it had different thread (as well as being fused to the thread...)

    After repetitive spraying over a few days with "rost off" imo an excellent penetrant for mildly rusted parts (certainly better than wd-40 & crc etc)

    I eventually heated it up with my soldering iron torch, then sprayed it with some freeze spray and I instantly heard a crack. The wingnut then removed with little resistance

    Nothing as major as the tractor part! that is a fantastic fix, but another method which i was very happy with
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    Possibly for sale....

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