Mi16 extreme oil use question
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  1. #1
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    Default Mi16 extreme oil use question

    Hi guys,

    The Mi has suddenly started using loads of oil. I passed it on to my son a while back and before that, I rarely needed to add oil between changes. Now it is taking a litre every 500km!!!

    The really strange thing is that it doesn't blow obvious smoke, and doesn't leave oil spots on the ground.

    One thing we noticed is that it seems to blow a bit of water out the exhaust even when warm. I suspected the head gasket, but it doesn't overheat and there's no oil in the coolant. The coolant has always dropped in level but I put that down to the heater core, as it has always had a slight coolant smell in the cabin, but not enough of a leak to wet the carpet.

    Any ideas what might be up?

    Cheers

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    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Valve stem seals?
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    Thought of that, but there's no smoke on the overrun, and I wouldn't expect it to happen suddenly. But I admit I'm stumped, so not ruling anything out. I haven't done a high revs then off the throttle test yet though, to suck oil down the guides. But what stumps me is the volume used and negligible smoke.


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    Tested at no load?

    You need to build a healthy vacuum in the intake.

    Go up a big hill in fifth and look behind you when you downshift (preferably to second). If there's no cloud of smoke following you, she's alright.

    Or maybe your engine drips only when it runs and it drips somewhere where it is dispersed quickly, or burnt quickly (like on some part of the exhaust).

    Or maybe it is leaking at the main rear seal directly on the flywheel and it is spun out somehow. Give the engine a good thorough clean, take for a spin and investigate.



    PS. Do you still have the steel mesh in the oil filler cap?
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 10th November 2016 at 04:00 AM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    If you can't see it coming out of the engine, ie a plume of smoke under normal driving, or dripping past a seal from gravity, it really can only be valve stem seals. Accelerate down a big hill in second, to say 5000 and then instantly back off. That should create enough vacuum to see some smoke if it's stem seals.

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    My son had someone follow him today and revved it to 5,000 held for a few seconds, down a long hill, then backed off. There was no smoke.

    It does still have the mesh in the filler cap.

    This is really strange. I've never seen a car use this much oil.

    I don't think this is a factor, but we've just started using full synthetic in his ownership. I always used semi synth.

    I can't help thinking its pooling somewhere, but it's so much it'd have to make a mess. The engine's not clean, but it doesn't drip on the driveway. Schlitz, I did look up behind the engine while it was on stands and there doesn't appear to be oil dropping on the exhaust. I might have to have a better look.

    Maybe someone's syphoning the oil.


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    Difficult to imagine it could pool somewhere without ever spilling where you can see it.

    I don't think you're going to see anything on the exhaust if my theory is valid. I would suggest you need to run it stationary with the bonnet open and monitor it for a while to see.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Try running your fingers along the back of the head were the rocker cover joins ,gasket prone to leak there ,as the engine lays back , dumps oil onto the exhaust ,were it burns away .what grade of oil are you using and also could your son be exercising the rev range a bit more than your wife did ,my wife used to drive ours everywhere in 5th gear ,theres two oil senders on the front of the block [the large one not used ]and the oil level sensor on the rear of the block ,worth checking for leaks when the engine is running ,from memory there is a breather pipe runs back to the top of the air cleaner ,check to see how much oil or vapour its dumping back in there ,how many ks on the engine ,you may have to consider a thicker grade pugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugwash View Post
    Try running your fingers along the back of the head were the rocker cover joins ,gasket prone to leak there ,as the engine lays back , dumps oil onto the exhaust ,were it burns away .what grade of oil are you using and also could your son be exercising the rev range a bit more than your wife did ,my wife used to drive ours everywhere in 5th gear ,theres two oil senders on the front of the block [the large one not used ]and the oil level sensor on the rear of the block ,worth checking for leaks when the engine is running ,from memory there is a breather pipe runs back to the top of the air cleaner ,check to see how much oil or vapour its dumping back in there ,how many ks on the engine ,you may have to consider a thicker grade pugs
    That is exactly what I was thinking. The M10 engine in BMW (2002, that kinda jazz) has the same problem. It is canted on the exhaust side and any leaks from the rocker cover seal end up on the exhaust and burn away with no residue left. The intake side is high enough that it never leaks that way.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    The easiest check is to give the car back to your wife.

    I bet the oil consumption will drop dramatically.

    It is all related to engine revs.

    The more revs the greater the oil consumption

    If not, then crankcase vent valve

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Ha. That's a good idea, actually. Back to first principles.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    My Mitsubishi Magna (excuse me, I just need to go and wash out my mouth) uses about a litre every 700 Ks, and does not drip substantial oil on the ground. However there is a fair bit underneath the engine when I look under there.

    It often smells of smokey burnt oil after I stop the car and it mostly drips onto the exhaust. It used to smell more, but in the last few months it has smelt much less after I stop the car. Still goes through a fair bit though.

    I have a love-hate relationship with this car, since the auto gearbox shat itself.

    After fixing the tappet covers and distributor base O-ring, and still getting not relief, I couldn't be buggered hunting around for the exact source.
    A few days ago though I think I got it......it was probably a combination of the sump gasket (there is none....it's suppoosed to be a "chemical seal"...ie silicone) and the sump plug O-ring.

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    My first car was a 1968 Falcon. It would use a gallon of oil to a tank of fuel when I first bought it. A set of valve stem seals - without even lifting the head and the oil consumption was down to about 1/2L every 2000km. It would also blow smoke on a trailing throttle, any other time it blew back into the inside of the air cleaner so you never saw the evidence.

    Grab a clean light coloured rag, get it hot, then hold the rag over the exhaust and give it a blast. Hold it there until well after it has returned to idle. If it is burning oil, you should see it on the rag. Then it is only a question of trying the valve stem seals first or just getting on with it and opening the pots up for a hone and new set of rings.
    racing 405
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    I didn't really think it was pooling, that was a half joke. But what you're saying about the leaky cam cover seems the most likely bet fellas. Son ran finger along rear and there was fresh oil.


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    Thanks, I'll try the rag too. Cheers for all the comments.

    Pugs, I'm using 10w/40 Magnatec and the car's done 196,000.

    Btw, my wife has never driven the 405...she's an auto only driver.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    I didn't really think it was pooling, that was a half joke. But what you're saying about the leaky cam cover seems the most likely bet fellas. Son ran finger along rear and there was fresh oil.

    There you have it.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    I'll have to have a look before declaring.


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    One thing I noticed in general was that whenever I replaced some engine fluid with another of better quality, leaks start everywhere. This goes for both coolant and oil. Maybe it's because the better fluid cleans muck left behind, maybe it dissolves "plugs" of residue left by the fluid before, who knows. Generally speaking, I stick with whatever I find in the car. And I have a suspicion that some old engines were not built for modern oils in the sense that seals, clearances, etc were different and they don't benefit from thinner, synthetic oils.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    If it is the cam cover seals you may find it runs down the back of the engine and doesn't drip off, but gets blown off at speed, check the underside of the car, if there is greasy muck all the way back under the floor pan then that is where your missing oil is

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    I just did a search for mi 16 rocker cover ,some interesting tips on getting it to seal properly ,seem to remember something [when i had mine ] about aftermarket gaskets being thinner than standard ,and needing some help with sealing , pugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugwash View Post
    I just did a search for mi 16 rocker cover ,some interesting tips on getting it to seal properly ,seem to remember something [when i had mine ] about aftermarket gaskets being thinner than standard ,and needing some help with sealing , pugs
    yep i have heard the best gasket to use is the genuine item...
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