where is the fuel pump relay on a 205 Si ?
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  1. #1
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    Default where is the fuel pump relay on a 205 Si ?

    One would think it would be the same as a GTi.....but nope !!

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  2. #2
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    Not sure if this helps but I found this in the Haynes

    n
    automatic transmission models manufactured
    from November 1986, an electric fuel pump
    submerged in the fuel tank is fitted instead of
    the previous mechanical type. The two relays
    which supply the pump are located on the side
    of the heater. One relay incorporates a safety
    feature, in that its primary windings are
    short-circuited to earth via the engine oil
    pressure switch. When the engine is stationary,
    this relay will not operate the fuel pump, but as
    soon as the engine is running it will supply
    current to the pump. The other relay operates
    in conjunction with the starter motor to operate
    the fuel pump for starting.

  3. #3
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    Cheers for that :] [mine is manual though ]
    I have been looking for a long black 7 pin tachy relay/fuel pump as in the GTi to no avail....anyone ?
    jr20516v

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    Exige SC [modded], 205 Si. 205 GTi , Megane R26 LY , Megane 225 [modded ]


    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

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    Maybe they are in the black box inside the engine bay attached to the wing like the Series 1? It's on the passenger side down a bit sorta in front of the battery. Sorry I have never looked at an Si

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    nope not there as that was the first place i looked :}
    jr20516v

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    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

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    According to this old wiring diagram, the tachymetric relay is item M744, located at A5. A is top.
    where is the fuel pump relay on a 205 Si ?-205diag.jpg
    M744A is "REL POMPE ESSENCE", presumably the pump relay.

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    I think in the Si the function of the pump relay is taken over by the ECU.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 24th October 2016 at 10:58 PM.
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    I doubt the ECU could switch and sink the fuel pump directly. If it's anything like a similar aged GTi, the relay will be up near the ECU, on the RH side of the footwell.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    No Pete..... i have looked on two Si's and nothing there.....cant see a 7 pronged plug either. Will keep searching !
    jr20516v

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    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

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    Quote Originally Posted by jr20516v View Post
    Cheers for that :] [mine is manual though ]
    I have been looking for a long black 7 pin tachy relay/fuel pump as in the GTi to no avail....anyone ?
    i always thought it was yellow with five pins?

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    May it runs on magic I'm interested to see where it turns up as I can't find any references to locations other than under dash near ECU, next to the heater element or in the engine bay box. This wiring diagram sort of suggests its on the passenger side somewhere in front of the fuse board but behind the temperature sensor. Front of the car is to the left.


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    Quote Originally Posted by djvu205 View Post
    i always thought it was yellow with five pins?
    Oh !! i see............... will report back. Thats probably why i cant find a black 7 pinned one !! LOL
    jr20516v

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    Previous: Honda EP3 Supercharged , 205 x34 [ including MI16 TURBO, 8v TURBO, CTI, 16V+TB's, 8V+TB's,] Fiat X1-9 X3, Beta coupes x5, Lancia Gamma coupe, GTI-R, Corvette C4, Fiero x5, Alpine GTA turbo, r5 GTT Dimma, 2cv ripple nose, Lotus Elise, 205 Dimma TT, Cliosport 172.x2, Clio rs 200

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    I'd send some more of the diagram if the server would only function.

    Tach. relay M744 is coloured noir, has 9 terminals with 7 occupied. 7 and 9 are unused.

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    look behind drivers side kick panel

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    It will just be a regular relay, not a super duper tachymetric relay like on Jetronic models. Wire number 76 should be there.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Yeah, that may be it. I pulled apart the entire wiring on the Si wreck and couldn't find a tachy relay like the GTI one, which is what I was looking for hoping to score a spare.

    I did find a plastic box with three relays in it on top of the passenger side strut, which doesn't exist in my GTI. Don't remember what relays, just normal looking ones, so I didn't check what they did. I just remembered there was a green one, a pink-purplish one (odd colour) and can't remember the last.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 25th October 2016 at 02:08 PM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post

    I did find a plastic box with three relays in it on top of the passenger side strut, which doesn't exist in my GTI. Don't remember what relays, just normal looking ones, so I didn't check what they did.
    That diagram I posted has 3 relays in around that location called Tachymetric relay (19), injection supply relay (20) and starter motor isolation relay (28) so that may be the correct ones.

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    Another path would be to find fuse 14 on the fuse board, then test and trace from there.
    As Peter said wire 76 leads the way.

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    valeo 03701 12v 25A is a number i wrote down a while back. not sure if its what your after but it was definately related to the fuel pump as i traced the wire. It was yellow relay i pulled from a 1990 s3 205 gti. I kept the plug also which i sent you a pic of in your other post. being that your talking about the SI it may be different?

    wire numbers are

    white 76
    grey 37A
    orange 120
    orange 96A
    brown 3
    red 1A

    Attached Thumbnails

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warus View Post
    That diagram I posted has 3 relays in around that location called Tachymetric relay (19), injection supply relay (20) and starter motor isolation relay (28) so that may be the correct ones.

    I wouldn't trust that diagram too much. If you look closely, you will see the pump is wired directly to both + and - irrespective of anything else, so according to that diagram, your fuel pump is running as we speak.

    The Haynes manual, where those diagrams are from is more of a principle info. I found the Revue Technique more accurate, but the problem is to correctly identify and find the car model and year and read the dang diagrams, which are printed very badly.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    I wouldn't trust that diagram too much. If you look closely, you will see the pump is wired directly to both + and - irrespective of anything else, so according to that diagram, your fuel pump is running as we speak.
    .
    i think you are misreading the diagram.
    i read it this way:
    *wire 2 comes from the Run position on the key switch, and that turns on both those relays
    *the tachymetric relay is not depicted as a tachymetric relay: there is no pulse input. rather it appears to be tachymetric in the sense that the injection control unit is doing the pulse detection and will only switch on #19 when there is a pulse.
    *wire 20 exiting #19 is switched +ve, and feeds a distribution point dead middle far left, which in turn feeds a number of sensors, injectors etc.
    *one of those wires is 76 which powers the fuel pump.

    as i see it, on the basis of that diagram, there is no dedicated fuel pump relay, which could explain why it is being so elusive.

  22. #22
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    Brown relay in the drivers side parcel tray area, near the ECU. In some year models this is under the bonnet near the coolant bottle!
    I can't believe there are so many differences in Sis given how few were built, I would have thought they would have all been built on the same day.
    It is not a basic relay, it has a couple of diodes fitted.
    I know all this because I bought a car recently with this relay faulty.

  23. #23
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    yep, found it Graham. It is a pity that thise brown 5 prong cant be used on the Gti [7 prong ] as they are approx. $60 each now.
    That was the main purpose of me starting this thread....to see if i can use it on a Gti.
    jr20516v

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  24. #24
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    Early Gti has a tachymetric relay triggered by the coil pulses. Same as 505 GTi.
    Try resoldering connections to the connector on the relay itself they can have dry joints.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    i think you are misreading the diagram.
    i read it this way:
    *wire 2 comes from the Run position on the key switch, and that turns on both those relays
    *the tachymetric relay is not depicted as a tachymetric relay: there is no pulse input. rather it appears to be tachymetric in the sense that the injection control unit is doing the pulse detection and will only switch on #19 when there is a pulse.
    *wire 20 exiting #19 is switched +ve, and feeds a distribution point dead middle far left, which in turn feeds a number of sensors, injectors etc.
    *one of those wires is 76 which powers the fuel pump.

    as i see it, on the basis of that diagram, there is no dedicated fuel pump relay, which could explain why it is being so elusive.
    If you are reading things that aren't in the picture you might as well read his palm or just plainly make everything up.

    And even then, all that claptrap would not make one iota of difference.

    Read the diagram again and you'll find that wire 76 goes uninterrupted all the way from battery positive to fuel pump (it changes number a couple of times to 76A but that's only to confuse people like you).

    So does the return (ground wire).

    Hence according to the diagram the pump is energised at all times.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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