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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! andrewj's Avatar
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    Default time to buy a compressor

    The time has come to buy a compressor... I've made do for the last 20 years or so of mucking around with old cars with out one.... Painting with rattle cans and blowing out carbies with a scubas tank

    So what should I be looking for? I plan to be doing more body work, so spaying, running grinders and a positive airflow mask.

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    I presume I need a belt drive unit with a reasonable size tank, and have come across "oil less" units in research so far. Would prefer to pay the cash to get something which will last the next 20 years, so availability of spare parts is important.

    Suggestions??

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Buy the biggest one you can find ....

    That is is. No oil-less crap ... biggest you can find... doesn't matter if it has a 15amp plug (files are cheap).

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    I have one of these:
    C342 | SUPER 16 Air Compressor | For Sale Sydney Brisbane Melbourne Perth | Buy Workshop Equipment & Machinery online at machineryhouse.com.au

    With an extra receiver to store a bit more air and provide some after cooling. Out of test auto LPG tanks are cheap and make excellent receivers.

    You need 15 amp single phase supply to power it.

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    15 Amp plugs are on electrical equipment for one very good reason, safety, filing down the earth blade on a 15 amp plug or replacing it is dangerous, they are made the way they are to carry the current safely if there is a an active to earth short, by the way if something happens, then your insurance is void, all in all in all not worth the risk.
    Regards
    Neil

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Gee , did I say that the earth pin was filed down ?

    For the record it in wired in 7/067 twin and earth cable and hooked up to 16 amp MCB RCD and terminates in 15 amp GPO.

    Although the Mig, because it normally runs at low welding currents has 15 amp female to 10 amp plug top "suicide lead".

    Nevertheless thanks for the lesson on electrical regulations.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TassieExec View Post
    15 Amp plugs are on electrical equipment for one very good reason, safety, filing down the earth blade on a 15 amp plug or replacing it is dangerous, they are made the way they are to carry the current safely if there is a an active to earth short, by the way if something happens, then your insurance is void, all in all in all not worth the risk.
    Regards
    Neil
    Huh .... what on earth does the earth pin size have to do with anything. The theory is a 15amp faceplate powerpoint should have a dedicated 15amp ( minimum ) circuit to it. Most house power circuits are 25amps. So long as nothing else is plugged in that is drawing excessive current through the circuit you are using.... you would be fine.

    Do you ever boil the kettle at the same time as you cook toast ... Guess what, that is well over 15amps you are pulling from that power point. Did the house burn down ? ...

    Just like anything in life, you need to be sensible. If you have an 80 year old house with ancient under spec wiring running out to your shed, I'd suggest avoiding running anything that pulls more current than a light bulb.

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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    I am saving up for one of these - https://www.tradetools.com/product-r...cast-iron-pump

    Had 15 amp plug installed in garage some time ago for the arc welder to save tripping the safety switch.
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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Ok let's go back to basics.

    Q: What is the difference between a 15 amp outlet and 10 amp outlet.
    1) The larger earth pin
    2) The number power points looping off the circuit. With a 15 amp power point the max allowable is one power point. With a 10 amp power point the maximum is effectively unlimited but good sparkys often limit to 10 power points.

    The cable is the same, 2.5 mm^2, and Circuit breaker is the same typically 16 amp.

    So what happens in the worst case if a 15 amp compressor and a welder drawing 15 amps are used at the time both off 10 amp power points . Ie load current of 30 amps.

    The 16 amp CB trips, end of story no further risk.

    In times gone by, with re-wirable fuse wedges, it was possible to create a hazardous situation by over-rating fuses. This created a situation of causing the fixed wiring to overheat.

    But in 20th century, with MCBs on nearly switch boards the risk is negligible.

    Whilst I won't do it myself, more for practical reasons, the user is protected from himself.

    And the same system applies to 6 fan heaters all plugged into 10 amp power points off the the same circuit. The CB trips. Nothing illegal or devious about that scenario.

    EDIT: I should stress I'm not advocating that Afer's routinely run 15 amp devices off 10 amp circuits.
    If you have a 3 hp compressor you need A 15 amp power point to power it. No doubt about that.
    Last edited by robmac; 18th October 2016 at 05:26 PM.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Poor andrewj. All he asked for is what compressor to buy...........

    Dare I say it, but buy the biggest you can afford.

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    Biggest you can afford is good advice. I've got one of these at work PHP15 High Pressure Portable, 300LPM, 15AMP » Peerless Products and it's been faultless. My F.I.L also has two of theirs without issue.
    My home one is similar to this P14 Portable, 275LPM, 10AMP » Peerless Products and would be at least 30 years old as a hand me down.
    Looking for second hand peerless, macmillan, ingersoll rand etc can be a good method.

    The direct drive, oil-less models are ok for hobby stuff, but make more noise and heat than air. They quickly get frustrating with rotary tools like sanders and grinders.

    A good retracting air reel keeps the hoses tidy. When buying hoses, getting the larger diameter avoids restricting the output by the time the air gets to the tool. I've got two reels, one tiny one (7 or 9mm I.D. ?), and one larger (15mm I.D ?) and there is a noticeable difference in grunt when using an impact wrench for example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Poor andrewj. All he asked for is what compressor to buy...........

    Dare I say it, but buy the biggest you can afford.
    Ha Ha, bush lawyers and bush electricians - what could possibly go wrong?

    I was temped by the cheap and cheery offerings from Supercheap etc, so thanks for the straight forward advice - will go get a big one instead

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, I have a few big puppies (ie 16cfm and bigger) at work for driving the spray booth, plasma cutter etc. If you're not planning to do serious painting or similar, 12 cfm is more than adequate for the average home workshop.

    '92 205 Mi16
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewj View Post
    I was temped by the cheap and cheery offerings from Supercheap etc, so thanks for the straight forward advice - will go get a big one instead
    Noise might be worth considering… A big one tends to be quieter than a little oil-less POS.
    The Oil-less ones and the little ones tend to have a large high frequency component to their noise and it drives you nuts.

    My shed ran two..a decent sized v twin and an aldi POS. Between the two of them the loop could maintain 60PSi with the spray gun at 100%.

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    CFM x 28.3 = L/min for comparisons sake.
    The 4 man panel beater next door recently bought a large McMillan, not sure which size - around 18-25 CFM I think, but it certainly gets a workout.

    As for noise, there's a couple of things that can be done. Mine is on a thick rubber matting, to isolate it from the floor/wall. The other main source is the intake valves (much like a car). My brother hooked his up through a typically convoluted car intake system, complete with filter, from pick-a-part.
    It's directly under their kitchen floor, and apparently is pretty un-intrusive. I haven't done that yet, but I will soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    For what it's worth, I have a few big puppies (ie 16cfm and bigger) at work for driving the spray booth, plasma cutter etc. If you're not planning to do serious painting or similar, 12 cfm is more than adequate for the average home workshop.
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    Aside from all the advice above about air compressor sizes all I can say is,

    1) If you have 15 amp appliances such as welders and large compressors get a 15 amp outlet installed, well worth the money and apart from being safe it will let you use your appliance to its full capacity.

    2) If you need to use your appliance further away from your 15 amp outlet than the power cord will allow get a 15 amp extension lead. The commercially available ones have 1.5 mm sq conductors. I made my own from 2.5 mm sq flex to make sure I definitely don't have any voltage drop.

    3) If you want to run your 15 amp appliance from a 10 amp outlet don't file the earth pin down to suit or make up one of those home made 10 to 15 amp converters but get your self one of these http://ampfibian.com.au/products/

    Just my worth.
    Last edited by COL; 18th October 2016 at 07:49 PM.
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    I've had a 13cfm twin cylinder belt drive air compressor with a 60lt tank for about 20 years.
    It's about as big as you can get on a 10A supply and has done a lot of work over those years everything from spray painting to nail guns, air sanders etc.
    large users will deplete the receiver after a while, but it's a home unit not a workshop so it's never been a big issue and if i do pause on large air user air tools then it's a quick recovery. Never had to stop with paint.

    I'd definitely recommend only a belt drive compressor, they are all loud but nothing's as loud as a direct drive unit. And reliability is much better.

    Then spend some money on good quality flexible hose, fittings and regulator water trap.

    Well maintained it should last many many years.

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    All that said, I have a cheap piece of crap (direct drive) that has done everything I needed to for about 16 years, neglected and housed in the sun, behind the garage. I don't even remember when I last checked its oil, but it was many years ago.

    One thing I would advise, is get a good quality hose and good quality fittings, as well as a water trap and pressure regulator. That is the more expensive investment, and I am not sure if bigger compressors come with these, I had to buy mine and they cost more than the compressor, so remember to put it in the budget.

    You need to stop every so often if you paint with it (or sandblast), but I rarely do any of that.
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    regarding the 10A/15A issue,

    given that:
    *the circuit wire is the same
    *all circuits are protected by the fuse/circuit breaker
    *a device with a 15A plug, cannot (by itself) overload a power circuit
    *several devices with 10A plugs can overload a circuit, due to multiple 10A GPOs on one circuit (and often do).

    my question would be: what is the point, even in theory, of 15A GPOs and plugs?

    it does seem that there is no increase in 'risk' at all, by plugging a 15A device into a 10A circuit. personally, i just change the plug on my MIG welder and, touch wood, the house has yet to go up in flames.

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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    The point is that your insurer (or anyone else's who you might ever claim against) will have grounds to claim you did something wrong.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlitzaugen View Post
    The point is that your insurer (or anyone else's who you might ever claim against) will have grounds to claim you did something wrong.
    If the risk is acceptably low ie provided the circuit protection device is not over-rated, your point is irrelevant.

    And as pointed three times previously, the situation is no different to overloading a 15 amp circuit with multiple "approved" devices each in 10 amp rated power points. Which the electrical rules have factored in.

    Whilst commonsense suggests that a dedicated 15 amp Gpo should installed to run a 3hp compressor. The sky won't fall nor the house wiring spontaneously combust if you don't.

    And the FUD being pedalled is mostly false.

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    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    About 3HP is about as big as you can go on a 10AMP GPO. (1HP = 745Watts, so 3HP = 2235Watts, or about 9 amps).
    More than that then you should (in theory anyway) go to a 15 amp point.
    I have a 3HP Renegade compressor, don't know how big the tank is but it's about a metre long.
    It's an oldie so I don't know how many CFM it will deliver either but it's enough.
    Renegade are made in Queensland (probably from Chinese parts) and sold by Tradetools only.
    It's a belt drive twin cylinder jobbie and this is more than enough for the occasional handyman jobs and car work.
    I've run sand blasters, rattle guns, paint sprayers, and other high demand tools off this with no problems.

    Go bigger if you want but unless you're going to be doing a lot of work it might not be necessary.

    Cheers
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    Last edited by REN TIN TIN; 19th October 2016 at 08:35 AM.
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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    About 3HP - 3.5HP is about as big as you can go on a 10AMP GPO. (1HP = 700Watts, so 3HP = 2100Watts, or about 9 amps).
    More than that then you should (in theory anyway) go to a 15 amp point.
    I have a 3HP Renegade compressor, don't know how big the tank is but it's about a metre long.
    It's an oldie so I don't know how many CFM it will deliver either but it's enough.
    Renegade are made in Queensland (probably from Chinese parts) and sold by Tradetools only.
    It's a belt drive twin cylinder jobbie and this is more than enough for the occasional handyman jobs and car work.
    I've run sand blasters, rattle guns, paint sprayers, and other high demand tools off this with no problems.

    Go bigger if you want but unless you're going to be doing a lot of work it might not be necessary.

    Cheers
    Ren
    In actual fact 1hp = 746 watts and you need to factor in the starting current of the Capacitor start / Capacitor run motor into the Equation.

    So a 15 amp supply is needed to reliably start a 16cfm / 3 hp compressor.

    And if the cable run from the switch board to the final point is long, to reduce voltage drop, it's advisable to use 4mm^2 cable and not 2.5 mm^2

  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REN TIN TIN View Post
    About 3HP is about as big as you can go on a 10AMP GPO. (1HP = 745Watts, so 3HP = 2235Watts, or about 9 amps).
    More than that then you should (in theory anyway) go to a 15 amp point.
    I have a 3HP Renegade compressor, don't know how big the tank is but it's about a metre long.
    It's an oldie so I don't know how many CFM it will deliver either but it's enough.
    Renegade are made in Queensland (probably from Chinese parts) and sold by Tradetools only.
    It's a belt drive twin cylinder jobbie and this is more than enough for the occasional handyman jobs and car work.
    I've run sand blasters, rattle guns, paint sprayers, and other high demand tools off this with no problems.

    Go bigger if you want but unless you're going to be doing a lot of work it might not be necessary.

    Cheers
    Ren
    I have an old aussie made Clisby compressor.... that is only 16cfm. From memory the running current of the motor is 13.5amps.... Now peak startup current I have no doubt would vastly more (a stationary motor is almost a dead short). No doubt it would spike to 20+amps for a tiny period of time until the motor spins upto running speed ( ie: < 1 second ). So long as you have slow reaction circuit breakers you shouldn't trip them.

    I remember in the late 80's the house my parents built had the meter box on the shed... so in theory you could have probably used 100% of the main power lines capacity from the street.... I can remember taping the circuit breakers closed... or standing at the meter box holding them so they couldn't turn off ... Otherwise you couldn't use a 10amp arc welder (everytime you went to strike an arc, the damn thing would pop the breaker). Even though the house wasn't finished and we had 100% line capacity available to the shed, the circuit breakers back them were so sensitive you couldn't run a 10amp welder without them tripping (it would drive you bloody insane).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 19th October 2016 at 11:10 AM.
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    regarding the 10A/15A issue,

    given that:
    *the circuit wire is the same
    *all circuits are protected by the fuse/circuit breaker
    *a device with a 15A plug, cannot (by itself) overload a power circuit
    *several devices with 10A plugs can overload a circuit, due to multiple 10A GPOs on one circuit (and often do).

    my question would be: what is the point, even in theory, of 15A GPOs and plugs?

    it does seem that there is no increase in 'risk' at all, by plugging a 15A device into a 10A circuit. personally, i just change the plug on my MIG welder and, touch wood, the house has yet to go up in flames.
    Because having a dedicated 15amp circuit ensure no-one else can load the circuit at the same time as you. Eg: it wouldn't suprise me if those modern awful houses with pretend sheds under the house roofs shared the shed circuit with the kitchen where you have plenty of high current appliances that can be plugged in.

    seeya,
    Shane L
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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    1000+ Posts FIVEDOOR's Avatar
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    andrewj,

    You might be up to speed, but as you are in Margate (Brisbane I presume), be aware that the water trap may not be enough to remove the moisture if painting in Brisbane summer humidity. There are number of cheap easy solutions, much easier than repainting when the paint bubbles (don't ask me how I know), I ran the air hose from the tank via bucket of water (couple of loops in the water) before it got to the filter and that was enough to fix the problem and allow the water filter to do its thing.
    Last edited by FIVEDOOR; 19th October 2016 at 06:00 PM. Reason: typo
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